5 ms·

The issue isn't "whose fault is it", the issue is what can we do about it, because we're all getting equally fucked by this. The hidden assumption is "we = the

The issue isn't "whose fault is it", the issue is what can we do about it, because we're all getting equally fucked by this. The hidden assumption is "we = the west". If China mismanages our waste then we shouldn't send it there, because mother nature doesn't care if it's technically our fault or not.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
The issue is whose fault it is, because that's who needs to be helped and/or pressured into fixing it. We should have regulations on exporting waste, but the west exporting waste is not the cause of the pollution.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  A lot of waste is exported illegally, and then we refuse to take it back! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_waste_dispute#:~:text=In%202016%2C%20a%20Philippine%20court,Plastics%20to%20retrieve%20their%20trash https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_w....
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Did you read the link? The Philippines seems to have had adequate inspection regulations, disputed the contract they had with this private company via legal channels, and Canada reciprocated by amending their laws to be able to receive the shipments back and The Philippines kept up pressure until that was done and it seems to be considered settled. Dealing with other people's plastic is easy because there is demand and money in it for you. Dealing with your own isn't quite so interesting that way -- that's what they need to be encouraged to do.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Dony you think it is an isolated incident? If you search, there are constant disputes with western garbage being illegally imported into second and third world countries. For every ton of garbage that is caught or adressed, seven pass under the radar. These are corrupt, struggling countries - you could import slaves and nukes if you k wo who to bribe https://www.greenpeace.org/philippines/press/2698/greenpeace-statement-on-the-australian-waste-found-in-misamis-oriental/ https://www.greenpeace.org/philippines/press/2698/greenpeace...
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        That's a better question for you to answer, since the incident you brought up contradicts the point you were hoping to make. And I know how things work in The Philippines, I've lived there for some years, I've driven past the the shanty villages built on landfills and the storm drains filled with garbage. I know about the corruption. And I'm not saying there's no single piece of plastic pollute the ocean from Asia that came from western waste exports, so that kind of angle would be a strawman. I'm questioning the extraordinary apologetics for the worst polluters when it comes to this issue. The evidence doesn't seem to stack up that the majority or even a significant part of the problem is the western waste export trade.
        ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        We would have the right to point fingers if we at least recycled domestically. As it stands, if countries in Asia act the way we do, they would offload garbage to those even less fortunate. Then we will be pointing fingers at Somalia and wondering how come there is plastic in the ocean still. How come tribal warlords are not dealing with it? We, the west, have created this problem, and we refuse to address it. Companies that produce 80% of the worlds plastic are headquartered here, listed on our stock exhanges, and financed here. We could resolve this with a stroke of a pen, if we had the balls to take action instead of playing politics
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        That's utter rubbish, "right to point fingers"? A problem does not somehow become not a problem when the observer (or pointer-outer) changes. Many Asian countries have massive terrible problems with their waste management and refuse to address it. Not created by the west, created by their own decisions. That's the simple fact of the matter.
- tjoff 5y ago
  If X can't/won't do it properly anyone relying on X to do it for them is also at fault.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Nobody who is trying to defend the worst polluters seems to have any actual data giving credence to the idea that the problem is mostly caused by western waste exports.
    - tjoff 5y ago
      It's not about defending it, the goal is for it to change. And that can't possible be by exporting our waste and blaming the ones we are exporting to. Yes there are some ridiculously low hanging fruits in some parts of the world, and more effort must be put into that (from our end as well). But that doesn't excuse us for not taking the, still low hanging fruits, that we have readily control over.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        > It's not about defending it, the goal is for it to change. For many it actually is about defending it, counter to the goal of change. > And that can't possible be by exporting our waste and blaming the ones we are exporting to. What's your evidence for that claim?

throwawaylinux 5y ago

The issue is whose fault it is, because that's who needs to be helped and/or pressured into fixing it. We should have regulations on exporting waste, but the west exporting waste is not the cause of the pollution.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
A lot of waste is exported illegally, and then we refuse to take it back! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_waste_dispute#:~:text=In%202016%2C%20a%20Philippine%20court,Plastics%20to%20retrieve%20their%20trash https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_w....
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Did you read the link? The Philippines seems to have had adequate inspection regulations, disputed the contract they had with this private company via legal channels, and Canada reciprocated by amending their laws to be able to receive the shipments back and The Philippines kept up pressure until that was done and it seems to be considered settled. Dealing with other people's plastic is easy because there is demand and money in it for you. Dealing with your own isn't quite so interesting that way -- that's what they need to be encouraged to do.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Dony you think it is an isolated incident? If you search, there are constant disputes with western garbage being illegally imported into second and third world countries. For every ton of garbage that is caught or adressed, seven pass under the radar. These are corrupt, struggling countries - you could import slaves and nukes if you k wo who to bribe https://www.greenpeace.org/philippines/press/2698/greenpeace-statement-on-the-australian-waste-found-in-misamis-oriental/ https://www.greenpeace.org/philippines/press/2698/greenpeace...
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      That's a better question for you to answer, since the incident you brought up contradicts the point you were hoping to make. And I know how things work in The Philippines, I've lived there for some years, I've driven past the the shanty villages built on landfills and the storm drains filled with garbage. I know about the corruption. And I'm not saying there's no single piece of plastic pollute the ocean from Asia that came from western waste exports, so that kind of angle would be a strawman. I'm questioning the extraordinary apologetics for the worst polluters when it comes to this issue. The evidence doesn't seem to stack up that the majority or even a significant part of the problem is the western waste export trade.
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        We would have the right to point fingers if we at least recycled domestically. As it stands, if countries in Asia act the way we do, they would offload garbage to those even less fortunate. Then we will be pointing fingers at Somalia and wondering how come there is plastic in the ocean still. How come tribal warlords are not dealing with it? We, the west, have created this problem, and we refuse to address it. Companies that produce 80% of the worlds plastic are headquartered here, listed on our stock exhanges, and financed here. We could resolve this with a stroke of a pen, if we had the balls to take action instead of playing politics
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        That's utter rubbish, "right to point fingers"? A problem does not somehow become not a problem when the observer (or pointer-outer) changes. Many Asian countries have massive terrible problems with their waste management and refuse to address it. Not created by the west, created by their own decisions. That's the simple fact of the matter.
tjoff 5y ago
If X can't/won't do it properly anyone relying on X to do it for them is also at fault.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Nobody who is trying to defend the worst polluters seems to have any actual data giving credence to the idea that the problem is mostly caused by western waste exports.
  - tjoff 5y ago
    It's not about defending it, the goal is for it to change. And that can't possible be by exporting our waste and blaming the ones we are exporting to. Yes there are some ridiculously low hanging fruits in some parts of the world, and more effort must be put into that (from our end as well). But that doesn't excuse us for not taking the, still low hanging fruits, that we have readily control over.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      > It's not about defending it, the goal is for it to change. For many it actually is about defending it, counter to the goal of change. > And that can't possible be by exporting our waste and blaming the ones we are exporting to. What's your evidence for that claim?