15 ms·

SerenityOS: Graphical Unix-like operating system with classic 90s UI

296 points by Santosh83 5y ago

turblety 5y ago
> SerenityOS is a love letter to '90s user interfaces with a custom Unix-like core. It flatters with sincerity by stealing beautiful ideas from various other systems. For a project that seems to be focused around something visual, it's strange to me that there's not even one screenshot on the home page. The github page [1] does at least have one. 1. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity edit: the screenshot is now on the home page! That was such a fast turn around.
- szszrk 5y ago
  Maybe there is no screenshot tool yet :O There is a youtube channel linked below with some SerenityOs content, but that's hardly an excuse.
  - thepill 5y ago
    there is ;)
    - a9h74j 5y ago
      Note to self: 1) Implement screenshot tool to provide motivation; 2) Implement the rest of myOS.
      - szszrk 5y ago
        It's not that weird to be honest, if you consider a mockup applicable to 1). Mockups and rough design diagrams should be pretty much obvious and omnipresent. We often start from a visual aid and move on from that level to actual details.
        a9h74j 5y ago
        Yes, I wanted to add emphasis to the usefulness of that, without seeming to be speaking to the parent writer.
- joeberon 5y ago
  That screenshot seems to be on the main page now
- akling 5y ago
  I added it to the homepage after seeing your comment, thank you! While we're a developer-targeted project, it makes total sense to have at least one screenshot on the website. :^)
dang 5y ago
Past related threads: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27317655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27317655 - May 2021 (249 comments) SerenityOS: Writing a Full Chain Exploit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26115141 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26115141 - Feb 2021 (9 comments) SerenityOS: A love letter to '90s user interfaces with a Unix-like core - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23911180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23911180 - July 2020 (1 comment) SerenityOS Update (April 2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23037581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23037581 - April 2020 (1 comment) Introduction to SerenityOS Programming - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22479132 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22479132 - March 2020 (43 comments) Pledge() and Unveil() in SerenityOS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22116914 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22116914 - Jan 2020 (28 comments) CTF writeup: First published SerenityOS kernel exploit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21918351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21918351 - Dec 2019 (2 comments) SerenityOS: From Zero to HTML in a Year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21212294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21212294 - Oct 2019 (52 comments) Serenity OS update (August 2019) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20851356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20851356 - Sept 2019 (2 comments) SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19986126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19986126 - May 2019 (179 comments) Serenity: x86 Unix-like operating system for IBM PC-compatibles - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19537807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19537807 - March 2019 (83 comments)
unixhero 5y ago
I am trying this today.
rado 5y ago
Sensible, consistent UI. So refreshing.
Quai 5y ago
The "hidden" gem here is all the videos posted by Andreas on his youtube channel. I've spent quite a few hours with him and learned a lot of things from his way of working.
- Deukhoofd 5y ago
  His videos are one of my favourite things to watch, very calming, and there's always something to learn.
akling 5y ago
Hello friends! I'm the original author of SerenityOS and it's a lovely surprise to see it on the front page of HN :^) This project has been quite the journey for me, from starting it from scratch ~3 years ago, to quitting my job ~3 months ago to focus on this full time. [1] It's also grown from a 1-man project into a bustling open source community with 475 contributors and counting. If anyone has questions about the system I'm happy to answer them! I also have a huge library of content on my YouTube channel [2], where I've uploaded hundreds of videos of me working on the system in real time, and also monthly update videos (since April 2019) where I demo recent developments. Our main community hub is over on Discord for anyone interested in joining development. [3] 1. https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-SerenityOS-full-time/ https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-Ser... 2. https://www.youtube.com/andreaskling https://www.youtube.com/andreaskling 3. https://discord.gg/serenityos https://discord.gg/serenityos
- davidkunz 5y ago
  Hi Andreas, It's astonishing how much you've achieved with SerenityOS. The sheer amount of high-quality YouTube videos explaining the process is unprecedented. Keep up the good work!
- hulitu 5y ago
  Is it possible to compile and run existing unix programs ?
  - akling 5y ago
    Certainly! We have a growing library of ports [1] that you can build with a single command to add 3rd party software to the system. Note that unlike many other operating systems, SerenityOS aims to be completely free of 3rd party software in the default install. So we build everything ourselves, all the way from the kernel to the web browser. It's great fun! 1. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Ports https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Ports
- als0 5y ago
  Inspiring work. When you started working on Serenity it had a floating dock and macOS-like menu bars. Now it looks more like Windows 2000 in style. What made you switch to this design? Familiarity?
dfee 5y ago
I’d like to see a general trend in throwback UIs where, for example, fonts have been updated. It doesn’t have to be extravagant, but if I’m reading it, the creature comforts of a modern font are nice. It’s like taking a classic car and putting in a modern radio.
- akling 5y ago
  SerenityOS does have basic support for TTF/OTF rendering via our native LibGfx library [1], and it's possible to switch the system font to a vector font of your choice. That said, nobody has implemented kerning or hinting yet, so vector fonts do look pretty unpolished on screen, especially at smaller sizes. 1. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/Libraries/LibGfx/TrueTypeFont https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/...
  - vkoskiv 5y ago
    While keming is important, it's still exciting to see how far along vector font support is already.
    - bartvk 5y ago
      Is this a genuine spelling error, or did you make a magnificent joke?
- emptyparadise 5y ago
  I think a lot of people take throwback projects and retro computing too far by rejecting everything modern. What's wrong with allowing some anachronisms for things like high DPI, internationalization, security, accessibility?
  - vkoskiv 5y ago
    Take a closer look - SerenityOS doesn't reject all modern stuff. The kernel has plenty of modern security mitigations (pledge(), unveil()), and there is basic high DPI support already. Internationalization and accessibility are very consumer product focused features, which is not what the project caters to at this time.
sdfjkl 5y ago
So I'm not the only one thinking that this was the time when desktop UI's peaked and most things since then are fluff and featuritis driven by the marketing departments needs to constantly have something new and exciting and usability going out of the window. Nice work!
- CRConrad 5y ago
  No, there's at least two of us. Three, with Andreas.
  - grishka 5y ago
    Four. Though I do like how modern macOS implements trackpad gestures, and drawing UI on the GPU is generally a good idea.
- kalekold 5y ago
  I agree. I love the old win95 UI because everything looked like how it performed. Buttons looked like buttons, scrollbars looked like scrollbars. It was immediately usable. The UX back then was amazing.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Schnozzberries tasted like Schnozzberries!
- agumonkey 5y ago
  it's 81% right. from this era, the only addition that fully welded into me was screen snapping windows there are some good fun stuff in today's desktops but .. it doesn't add much to your journey IMO (and often you lose CUA services like full keyboard access too 99% widgets)
zozbot234 5y ago
The 3d styling in the UI is very nice, but the widgets are not touch friendly at all. Even "classic 90s" OS's like Windows CE used the pattern of headerbars with a few key widgets that could be easily accessed via touch, not unlike modern GTK 3.x and 4.x. A lot friendlier than this.
- akling 5y ago
  That's correct, the SerenityOS UI does not attempt to be touch friendly. This is a classic mouse & keyboard system by design. :)
  - hulitu 5y ago
    This is a really good thing. A lot of desktop stuff seems to presume a desktop has a touch interface which is almost never the case. Using the keyboard and mouse for 8 (or 12 hours in case of IE) is tiring enough. I cannot picture someone using a touchscreen for 8 (or 12 hours in case of IE).
  - HackedBunny 5y ago
    Good! Tablet and phone concerns have been the absolute bane of desktop UIs for so long now.
- boomlinde 5y ago
  > Even "classic 90s" OS's like Windows CE used the pattern of headerbars with a few key widgets that could be easily accessed via touch That's because it was made from the start for PDAs with touch screens. This is a desktop computer OS, and although I can entertain the notion that someone out there might be smudging a touch screen connected to their Unix workstation, I don't see why everyone else should accommodate this weird and ergonomically unsound input method at the expense of screen estate. Also, whether they could be easily accessed really depends on the device and input method. Using Pocket PCs without a stylus was certainly no fun.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    Well, these days we have "PDAs with touchscreens" running "Unix workstation" OS's. Touch input is simply the native input method on these devices.
nullifidian 5y ago
Wanted to scoff at the retro trend, but this thing looks beautiful.
bni 5y ago
What happens if you have a 4K screen, is there 2x, 3x, 4x integer scaling built in?
- akling 5y ago
  Integer scaling is in development and 2x mode is available via the display settings application. It's not mature yet, and most assets don't have 2x versions. But we'll get there eventually. :^)
  - unnah 5y ago
    It seems there is no GPU support as such. Is it even possible to set up a 4K resolution via VESA BIOS?
wolf550e 5y ago
SerenityOS has implemented its own TLS 1.2 client from scratch (no server side support so far), currently with TLS_RSA_ and TLS_DHE_RSA_ only, and AES-CBC and AES-GCM only (software table driven AES, software GCM, naive CBC padding handling, nothing is constant time). It does not even pretend to be secure so far (intentionally accepts self signed certs), but if they ever want to make it secure, that would be a big task. For compatibility, they really should implement ECDHE with NIST P-256, because that is what most of the internet uses and what they support means they always fallback to no-PFS. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/Libraries/LibTLS https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/... https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/Libraries/LibCrypto https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/...
kokey 5y ago
I somehow like this a lot. This looks kind of what Windows NT would have been if NT 4.0 never happened, or if OS/2 survived, or if MacOS or Windows went to a Unix kernel in the early 90s. It's a bit like the Nissan Figaro of desktop operating systems. That said, going back to an alternative past can be useful beyond an art project, it could evolve into helping along the vision for better lightweight desktop operating systems of the future. For example this might work very well as a remote desktop living on virtual infrastructure, or work well as the base for a remote desktop client.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > This looks kind of what Windows NT would have been if NT 4.0 never happened Why? As I recall it, NT4 was the one that caught the NT line up to the W95 look, replacing NT3.5(1)'s look inherited from W3(.1). So, on the contrary: This looks just like NT4 / W2K.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
It's great to have new OSs that are actually new OSs, and that eschew the brain cancer UX that has taken over since about 2010. Since it seems to be a pet project and toy of the author and its community, I guess I can't really fault it per-se, but it is really strange to me that in its love for 90s UX it failed to implement a sane form of application management. It seems to have weirdly mixed bad ideas from Windows (installers) and UNIX (fixed paths), even though multiple 90s OSs got it right (MacOS, RiscOS, NeXT, even DOS to an extent). It is also a little off-putting that it explicitly "doesn't cater to non-technical users" when a pretty core part of personal computing back then was on ramping non-technical users to leveraging the power of a computer. I mean, don't get me wrong, a whole f'ing lot of evil has been done in the name of "making computing easier for non-technical people", but Serenity takes it to the extent that it doesn't have a live environment or installer and you have to compile it from source. I mean yeah, sure, hobby OS and all, but it just strikes me as missing a very essential component of 90s personal computing.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  First of all, not all the changes have to be implemented immediately. Andreas often livestreams hack sessions where he changes some part of the OS or the APIs, so things are very dynamic. Secondly, why do you expect that this OS is ready to show to any non-technical user? If you did, they wouldn't realise what they are looking at, nor why it's a valuable contribution to the ecosystem and the fight against the "modern" UX trends. The effort would be wasted until the project becomes more prominent
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    > First of all, not all the changes have to be implemented immediately. I'll comment on future features when they exist, or at least are documented as a goal. > Secondly, why do you expect that this OS is ready to show to any non-technical user? I don't. I am commenting on what exists, and what exists is an FAQ entry specifically stating that the project does not cater to non-technical users. Even so, I think you underestimate non-technical users. Another modern trend I despise.
ThinkBeat 5y ago
Thank you for your work. It is critical for the operating system space to have more variation and innovation. I admire your skills and dedication.
metalliqaz 5y ago
So is it based on Linux or...?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  No. It's actually a new OS, as in a completely new kernel.
wruza 5y ago
That help app still looks so much better and more useful than usual web-based “whitespace ocean bullshit” docs.
rathboma 5y ago
Love your development videos. When do you think you'll be able to run your dev stack natively on serenity rather than in Linux and virtualizing serenity only for testing?
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  I think this is the eventual goal. Andreas implemented a code editor within the OS, and I think some compiler could be ported quite easily too.
stinkytaco 5y ago
Is there a term for something that is absolutely not for you, but that you're still very happy exists? I can't see myself ever using this, but the idea that someone has put that kind of effort in is amazing.
- dev_tty01 5y ago
  Agree completely. I would never ever want to go back to that interface look, but the existence of this project in the universe is cool. Nice work!
- wildrhythms 5y ago
  I have no intention of using Serenity but every time it's posted I am filled with joy that the project exists, and that people care about it.
donhaker 5y ago
I do dig the aesthetic, especially on the browser. But is there anything things we can do in the OS? Can it run online videos and play music?
qwerty456127 5y ago
Beautiful. I wish I could make this my daily driver (even in a VM - I wouldn't mind).
thom 5y ago
Every time this comes up I feel compelled to say that I find the source code really ridiculously readable, even as the project grows and more apps and features are added.
cosmotic 5y ago
Any chance we could get more than a single screenshot?
99mans 5y ago
Took a look. Unclear why this is in any way superior to Debian and customized XFCE. Nothing is said about my security and privacy using the OS. Hard pass.
adamrezich 5y ago
that UI is absolutely gorgeous.

296 points by Santosh83 5y ago

> SerenityOS is a love letter to '90s user interfaces with a custom Unix-like core. It flatters with sincerity by stealing beautiful ideas from various other systems. For a project that seems to be focused around something visual, it's strange to me that there's not even one screenshot on the home page. The github page [1] does at least have one. 1. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity edit: the screenshot is now on the home page! That was such a fast turn around.

szszrk 5y ago
Maybe there is no screenshot tool yet :O There is a youtube channel linked below with some SerenityOs content, but that's hardly an excuse.
- thepill 5y ago
  there is ;)
  - a9h74j 5y ago
    Note to self: 1) Implement screenshot tool to provide motivation; 2) Implement the rest of myOS.
    - szszrk 5y ago
      It's not that weird to be honest, if you consider a mockup applicable to 1). Mockups and rough design diagrams should be pretty much obvious and omnipresent. We often start from a visual aid and move on from that level to actual details.
      - a9h74j 5y ago
        Yes, I wanted to add emphasis to the usefulness of that, without seeming to be speaking to the parent writer.
joeberon 5y ago
That screenshot seems to be on the main page now
akling 5y ago
I added it to the homepage after seeing your comment, thank you! While we're a developer-targeted project, it makes total sense to have at least one screenshot on the website. :^)

dang 5y ago

Past related threads: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27317655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27317655 - May 2021 (249 comments) SerenityOS: Writing a Full Chain Exploit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26115141 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26115141 - Feb 2021 (9 comments) SerenityOS: A love letter to '90s user interfaces with a Unix-like core - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23911180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23911180 - July 2020 (1 comment) SerenityOS Update (April 2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23037581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23037581 - April 2020 (1 comment) Introduction to SerenityOS Programming - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22479132 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22479132 - March 2020 (43 comments) Pledge() and Unveil() in SerenityOS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22116914 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22116914 - Jan 2020 (28 comments) CTF writeup: First published SerenityOS kernel exploit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21918351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21918351 - Dec 2019 (2 comments) SerenityOS: From Zero to HTML in a Year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21212294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21212294 - Oct 2019 (52 comments) Serenity OS update (August 2019) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20851356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20851356 - Sept 2019 (2 comments) SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19986126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19986126 - May 2019 (179 comments) Serenity: x86 Unix-like operating system for IBM PC-compatibles - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19537807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19537807 - March 2019 (83 comments)

unixhero 5y ago

I am trying this today.

rado 5y ago

Sensible, consistent UI. So refreshing.

Quai 5y ago

The "hidden" gem here is all the videos posted by Andreas on his youtube channel. I've spent quite a few hours with him and learned a lot of things from his way of working.

Deukhoofd 5y ago
His videos are one of my favourite things to watch, very calming, and there's always something to learn.

akling 5y ago

Hello friends! I'm the original author of SerenityOS and it's a lovely surprise to see it on the front page of HN :^) This project has been quite the journey for me, from starting it from scratch ~3 years ago, to quitting my job ~3 months ago to focus on this full time. [1] It's also grown from a 1-man project into a bustling open source community with 475 contributors and counting. If anyone has questions about the system I'm happy to answer them! I also have a huge library of content on my YouTube channel [2], where I've uploaded hundreds of videos of me working on the system in real time, and also monthly update videos (since April 2019) where I demo recent developments. Our main community hub is over on Discord for anyone interested in joining development. [3] 1. https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-SerenityOS-full-time/ https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-Ser... 2. https://www.youtube.com/andreaskling https://www.youtube.com/andreaskling 3. https://discord.gg/serenityos https://discord.gg/serenityos

davidkunz 5y ago
Hi Andreas, It's astonishing how much you've achieved with SerenityOS. The sheer amount of high-quality YouTube videos explaining the process is unprecedented. Keep up the good work!
hulitu 5y ago
Is it possible to compile and run existing unix programs ?
- akling 5y ago
  Certainly! We have a growing library of ports [1] that you can build with a single command to add 3rd party software to the system. Note that unlike many other operating systems, SerenityOS aims to be completely free of 3rd party software in the default install. So we build everything ourselves, all the way from the kernel to the web browser. It's great fun! 1. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Ports https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Ports
als0 5y ago
Inspiring work. When you started working on Serenity it had a floating dock and macOS-like menu bars. Now it looks more like Windows 2000 in style. What made you switch to this design? Familiarity?

dfee 5y ago

I’d like to see a general trend in throwback UIs where, for example, fonts have been updated. It doesn’t have to be extravagant, but if I’m reading it, the creature comforts of a modern font are nice. It’s like taking a classic car and putting in a modern radio.

akling 5y ago
SerenityOS does have basic support for TTF/OTF rendering via our native LibGfx library [1], and it's possible to switch the system font to a vector font of your choice. That said, nobody has implemented kerning or hinting yet, so vector fonts do look pretty unpolished on screen, especially at smaller sizes. 1. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/Libraries/LibGfx/TrueTypeFont https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/...
- vkoskiv 5y ago
  While keming is important, it's still exciting to see how far along vector font support is already.
  - bartvk 5y ago
    Is this a genuine spelling error, or did you make a magnificent joke?
emptyparadise 5y ago
I think a lot of people take throwback projects and retro computing too far by rejecting everything modern. What's wrong with allowing some anachronisms for things like high DPI, internationalization, security, accessibility?
- vkoskiv 5y ago
  Take a closer look - SerenityOS doesn't reject all modern stuff. The kernel has plenty of modern security mitigations (pledge(), unveil()), and there is basic high DPI support already. Internationalization and accessibility are very consumer product focused features, which is not what the project caters to at this time.

sdfjkl 5y ago

So I'm not the only one thinking that this was the time when desktop UI's peaked and most things since then are fluff and featuritis driven by the marketing departments needs to constantly have something new and exciting and usability going out of the window. Nice work!

CRConrad 5y ago
No, there's at least two of us. Three, with Andreas.
- grishka 5y ago
  Four. Though I do like how modern macOS implements trackpad gestures, and drawing UI on the GPU is generally a good idea.
kalekold 5y ago
I agree. I love the old win95 UI because everything looked like how it performed. Buttons looked like buttons, scrollbars looked like scrollbars. It was immediately usable. The UX back then was amazing.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Schnozzberries tasted like Schnozzberries!
agumonkey 5y ago
it's 81% right. from this era, the only addition that fully welded into me was screen snapping windows there are some good fun stuff in today's desktops but .. it doesn't add much to your journey IMO (and often you lose CUA services like full keyboard access too 99% widgets)

zozbot234 5y ago

The 3d styling in the UI is very nice, but the widgets are not touch friendly at all. Even "classic 90s" OS's like Windows CE used the pattern of headerbars with a few key widgets that could be easily accessed via touch, not unlike modern GTK 3.x and 4.x. A lot friendlier than this.

akling 5y ago
That's correct, the SerenityOS UI does not attempt to be touch friendly. This is a classic mouse & keyboard system by design. :)
- hulitu 5y ago
  This is a really good thing. A lot of desktop stuff seems to presume a desktop has a touch interface which is almost never the case. Using the keyboard and mouse for 8 (or 12 hours in case of IE) is tiring enough. I cannot picture someone using a touchscreen for 8 (or 12 hours in case of IE).
- HackedBunny 5y ago
  Good! Tablet and phone concerns have been the absolute bane of desktop UIs for so long now.
boomlinde 5y ago
> Even "classic 90s" OS's like Windows CE used the pattern of headerbars with a few key widgets that could be easily accessed via touch That's because it was made from the start for PDAs with touch screens. This is a desktop computer OS, and although I can entertain the notion that someone out there might be smudging a touch screen connected to their Unix workstation, I don't see why everyone else should accommodate this weird and ergonomically unsound input method at the expense of screen estate. Also, whether they could be easily accessed really depends on the device and input method. Using Pocket PCs without a stylus was certainly no fun.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  Well, these days we have "PDAs with touchscreens" running "Unix workstation" OS's. Touch input is simply the native input method on these devices.

nullifidian 5y ago

Wanted to scoff at the retro trend, but this thing looks beautiful.

bni 5y ago

What happens if you have a 4K screen, is there 2x, 3x, 4x integer scaling built in?

akling 5y ago
Integer scaling is in development and 2x mode is available via the display settings application. It's not mature yet, and most assets don't have 2x versions. But we'll get there eventually. :^)
- unnah 5y ago
  It seems there is no GPU support as such. Is it even possible to set up a 4K resolution via VESA BIOS?

wolf550e 5y ago

SerenityOS has implemented its own TLS 1.2 client from scratch (no server side support so far), currently with TLS_RSA_ and TLS_DHE_RSA_ only, and AES-CBC and AES-GCM only (software table driven AES, software GCM, naive CBC padding handling, nothing is constant time). It does not even pretend to be secure so far (intentionally accepts self signed certs), but if they ever want to make it secure, that would be a big task. For compatibility, they really should implement ECDHE with NIST P-256, because that is what most of the internet uses and what they support means they always fallback to no-PFS. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/Libraries/LibTLS https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/... https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/Libraries/LibCrypto https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/...

kokey 5y ago

I somehow like this a lot. This looks kind of what Windows NT would have been if NT 4.0 never happened, or if OS/2 survived, or if MacOS or Windows went to a Unix kernel in the early 90s. It's a bit like the Nissan Figaro of desktop operating systems. That said, going back to an alternative past can be useful beyond an art project, it could evolve into helping along the vision for better lightweight desktop operating systems of the future. For example this might work very well as a remote desktop living on virtual infrastructure, or work well as the base for a remote desktop client.

CRConrad 5y ago
> This looks kind of what Windows NT would have been if NT 4.0 never happened Why? As I recall it, NT4 was the one that caught the NT line up to the W95 look, replacing NT3.5(1)'s look inherited from W3(.1). So, on the contrary: This looks just like NT4 / W2K.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

It's great to have new OSs that are actually new OSs, and that eschew the brain cancer UX that has taken over since about 2010. Since it seems to be a pet project and toy of the author and its community, I guess I can't really fault it per-se, but it is really strange to me that in its love for 90s UX it failed to implement a sane form of application management. It seems to have weirdly mixed bad ideas from Windows (installers) and UNIX (fixed paths), even though multiple 90s OSs got it right (MacOS, RiscOS, NeXT, even DOS to an extent). It is also a little off-putting that it explicitly "doesn't cater to non-technical users" when a pretty core part of personal computing back then was on ramping non-technical users to leveraging the power of a computer. I mean, don't get me wrong, a whole f'ing lot of evil has been done in the name of "making computing easier for non-technical people", but Serenity takes it to the extent that it doesn't have a live environment or installer and you have to compile it from source. I mean yeah, sure, hobby OS and all, but it just strikes me as missing a very essential component of 90s personal computing.

selfhoster11 5y ago
First of all, not all the changes have to be implemented immediately. Andreas often livestreams hack sessions where he changes some part of the OS or the APIs, so things are very dynamic. Secondly, why do you expect that this OS is ready to show to any non-technical user? If you did, they wouldn't realise what they are looking at, nor why it's a valuable contribution to the ecosystem and the fight against the "modern" UX trends. The effort would be wasted until the project becomes more prominent
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  > First of all, not all the changes have to be implemented immediately. I'll comment on future features when they exist, or at least are documented as a goal. > Secondly, why do you expect that this OS is ready to show to any non-technical user? I don't. I am commenting on what exists, and what exists is an FAQ entry specifically stating that the project does not cater to non-technical users. Even so, I think you underestimate non-technical users. Another modern trend I despise.

ThinkBeat 5y ago

Thank you for your work. It is critical for the operating system space to have more variation and innovation. I admire your skills and dedication.

metalliqaz 5y ago

So is it based on Linux or...?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
No. It's actually a new OS, as in a completely new kernel.

wruza 5y ago

That help app still looks so much better and more useful than usual web-based “whitespace ocean bullshit” docs.

rathboma 5y ago

Love your development videos. When do you think you'll be able to run your dev stack natively on serenity rather than in Linux and virtualizing serenity only for testing?

selfhoster11 5y ago
I think this is the eventual goal. Andreas implemented a code editor within the OS, and I think some compiler could be ported quite easily too.

stinkytaco 5y ago

Is there a term for something that is absolutely not for you, but that you're still very happy exists? I can't see myself ever using this, but the idea that someone has put that kind of effort in is amazing.

dev_tty01 5y ago
Agree completely. I would never ever want to go back to that interface look, but the existence of this project in the universe is cool. Nice work!
wildrhythms 5y ago
I have no intention of using Serenity but every time it's posted I am filled with joy that the project exists, and that people care about it.

donhaker 5y ago

I do dig the aesthetic, especially on the browser. But is there anything things we can do in the OS? Can it run online videos and play music?

qwerty456127 5y ago

Beautiful. I wish I could make this my daily driver (even in a VM - I wouldn't mind).

thom 5y ago

Every time this comes up I feel compelled to say that I find the source code really ridiculously readable, even as the project grows and more apps and features are added.

cosmotic 5y ago

Any chance we could get more than a single screenshot?

99mans 5y ago

Took a look. Unclear why this is in any way superior to Debian and customized XFCE. Nothing is said about my security and privacy using the OS. Hard pass.

adamrezich 5y ago

that UI is absolutely gorgeous.