3 ms·

Living in America?

weare138 5y ago
There's a difference between ideals and practice. The ultra rich and multi-billion dollar corporations are allowed to directly financially influence our politicians through lobbying which is just a legal form of bribery. We're not the best example of a pure democracy.
atoav 5y ago
America is a nation mostly shaped by the idea that human nature is competitive and hostile (and capitalism would be the way to channel these emotions for productive outcomes). I rather live in a place that underlines a different trait of human nature. There will always be aggression and competitiveness, but places that make the base assumption of cooperation turn out to be much nicer, more liveable and generally more efficient. Also: if the US had the same voting system as most modern democracies where one vote has the same voting power, independent from which province or state you are voting, policy and live in the US would look a lot different.
- mionhe 5y ago
  What places did you have in mind that exemplify that cooperation?
  - plutonorm 5y ago
    Nordic countries. Probably, as the article suggests, the lack of defensible high concentrations of resources. Up until the most recent centuries of course. But genetics and culture are slower to change.
- luckylion 5y ago
  Do most modern democracies have equal power for each vote, regardless of their province/state/region? Don't most use voting districts to elect individuals?
  - ElFitz 5y ago
    Most democracies do indeed elect their representatives per voting district, with each vote inside said district having the same voting power, and each district electing one representative. Then, for those where a prime minister rules, the prime minister is chosen by the elected representatives. In presidential democracies, the president is usually directly elected by voters, on a nationwide basis, independently of voting districts. So having a majority of the votes gets you elected.
    - luckylion 5y ago
      > So having a majority of the votes gets you elected. In a presidential democracy, yes. In the others, maybe. Win 51% of the districts with 51% of the vote, and lose the other 49% without getting any votes. You've won the election, but haven't gotten the majority of votes. Yes, it's usually less extreme than in the US, but it still has the same issues with different district sizes.
      - ElFitz 5y ago
        > In the others, maybe. Win 51% of the districts with 51% of the vote, and lose the other 49% without getting any votes. To help with it, many countries regularly redraw their districts based on population size (census data). How is it in the US? (honestly have no idea)
  - mellavora 5y ago
    The US has a winner-take-all approach. If a district votes 40% party X and 60% party Y, then party Y gets all of the representatives. These numbers are not atypical. So generally in the US, 40% of voters are not represented. A parliamentary democracy with proportional representation would, assuming say 10 seats for a 'state', split those 10 seats according to the vote. So you'd get 40 X'ers and 60 Y'ers. However, the parliamentary allows smaller parties to emerge, and as the support of a smaller party is necessary to get a majority of overall votes, the smaller parties have real power.

Living in America?

There's a difference between ideals and practice. The ultra rich and multi-billion dollar corporations are allowed to directly financially influence our politicians through lobbying which is just a legal form of bribery. We're not the best example of a pure democracy.

atoav 5y ago

America is a nation mostly shaped by the idea that human nature is competitive and hostile (and capitalism would be the way to channel these emotions for productive outcomes). I rather live in a place that underlines a different trait of human nature. There will always be aggression and competitiveness, but places that make the base assumption of cooperation turn out to be much nicer, more liveable and generally more efficient. Also: if the US had the same voting system as most modern democracies where one vote has the same voting power, independent from which province or state you are voting, policy and live in the US would look a lot different.

mionhe 5y ago
What places did you have in mind that exemplify that cooperation?
- plutonorm 5y ago
  Nordic countries. Probably, as the article suggests, the lack of defensible high concentrations of resources. Up until the most recent centuries of course. But genetics and culture are slower to change.
luckylion 5y ago
Do most modern democracies have equal power for each vote, regardless of their province/state/region? Don't most use voting districts to elect individuals?
- ElFitz 5y ago
  Most democracies do indeed elect their representatives per voting district, with each vote inside said district having the same voting power, and each district electing one representative. Then, for those where a prime minister rules, the prime minister is chosen by the elected representatives. In presidential democracies, the president is usually directly elected by voters, on a nationwide basis, independently of voting districts. So having a majority of the votes gets you elected.
  - luckylion 5y ago
    > So having a majority of the votes gets you elected. In a presidential democracy, yes. In the others, maybe. Win 51% of the districts with 51% of the vote, and lose the other 49% without getting any votes. You've won the election, but haven't gotten the majority of votes. Yes, it's usually less extreme than in the US, but it still has the same issues with different district sizes.
    - ElFitz 5y ago
      > In the others, maybe. Win 51% of the districts with 51% of the vote, and lose the other 49% without getting any votes. To help with it, many countries regularly redraw their districts based on population size (census data). How is it in the US? (honestly have no idea)
- mellavora 5y ago
  The US has a winner-take-all approach. If a district votes 40% party X and 60% party Y, then party Y gets all of the representatives. These numbers are not atypical. So generally in the US, 40% of voters are not represented. A parliamentary democracy with proportional representation would, assuming say 10 seats for a 'state', split those 10 seats according to the vote. So you'd get 40 X'ers and 60 Y'ers. However, the parliamentary allows smaller parties to emerge, and as the support of a smaller party is necessary to get a majority of overall votes, the smaller parties have real power.