4 ms·

I moved from California overseas. I haven’t gotten rid of my state id as I would like an American one to use when I’m in the US. I haven’t switched my voter

I moved from California overseas. I haven’t gotten rid of my state id as I would like an American one to use when I’m in the US. I haven’t switched my voter registration (other than to say I’m overseas) as I have the legal right to vote at my last US address. I haven’t switched my official address registration (not sure what that is, presume you mean via usps) as it is a pain internationally and someone living at my old address can still send me any mail (lots of services won’t even take a non-us address). I don’t spend much time in California (less than a month so far in 2021) but I still have some income there. I don’t think my situation is unique, I just worry that one day the franchise tax board will attempt to collect taxes which they don’t deserve (I live in a country with a higher tax rate than California, I don’t think I’m trying to avoid any taxes).

matttproud 5y ago
I was in a similar boat a decade ago. I read the FTB documentation (FTB 1031 Sect. E-L) carefully and just accepted it would be subjective criteria test in court if it ever came down to it. I started keeping immaculate records (motivated by the IRS' substantial presence test or bona fide residence test depending on the year and where the family was in terms of which country it was in — e.g., moving to another). The main points that were relevant — memory serves — were a permanent work contract in the new country and having dissolved housing contracts and similar in CA. My advice: if going abroad, aim to promote your residency status in the new country to "permanent residency" (cf. Green Card, Niederlassungserlaubnis, Niederlassungsbewilligung) over just being permitted either temporary or long-term (cf. Aufenthaltserlaubnis, Kurzaufenthaltsbewilligung). It takes some work to earn permanent residency over the others (e.g., being in good standing, language mastery, and ability to substantively demonstrate financial independence). The idea of earning permanent residency (in a place where it's difficult to earn it) and throwing it away to return to CA suddenly would probably appear preposterous in court in terms of FTB arguing that you're just away from CA temporarily. I kept a US driver license out of convenience in CA. Never was a problem, though I transitioned it to another state where I had family ties and a mailing address hear later. I kept my CA bank account out of practicality. It was the only bank I had dealt with out of about six in rapid succession that was supportive and friendly with my living abroad (e.g., power of attorney, wire transfers without being in-person). Voter registration in CA is fine per Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA). You are entitled your vote; what will differ is whether the state grants you purely federal or also local voting rights. You get federal at a minimum. UOCAVA is a bit hand-wavy with the criteria, so I did transfer my voter registration to the other state where I had the license. For the one year I was half-in California while also being abroad, I still filed taxes accordingly for that year for CA. IIRC, I might have even filed 0 in a CA FTB form for the next year. So: in short, multiple years with "weak" bureaucratic carryover ties in CA without issue, but ultimately transferred all matters aside from bank account to a state with deeper ties (even if living abroad). Never an issue. The real monster, which dates back to the US Civil War, is the need to pay and file taxes when domiciled abroad. You can then add FATCA on top of that as a cherry. The CA FTB is a dream compared to the IRS here. I’ve basically accepted that this situation won’t improve in my lifetime. Maybe my children’s.
- refurb 5y ago
  This is my understanding as well. It's not that keeping a CA drivers license means you are a resident, it's just one (of many) factors the FTB will use to determine whether or not you are a resident. If you can break major ties with CA (not earning income in the state, you don't have a home in the state, you spend less than 30 days a year in the state) and show substantial evidence of residency in another place (employment contract, primary residence, etc) then it's a bit cleaner.
kenneth 5y ago
I'm not American. I moved from California to Hong Kong years ago. Somehow, I'm still supposed to be filing tax returns in the US and in CA. It's absolutely bonkers. I haven't stepped foot in the US in >18mo. The USA won't let go of their hold on me, forcing me to pay taxes in a country and state I don't live, and refuses to consider me a non-resident unless I go through a complex process to renounce my green card, and give it a long buffer time. It's absurd. I wish I could just tell them to shove it, but sadly I do need the ability to come back for the occasional work meeting and personal reasons.
ryan_lane 5y ago
Your passport is a valid US ID. You can vote nationally, but if you are no longer a California resident, you can't vote for any parts of the state elections. Get a virtual mailbox, ideally in another state (like Washington, Texas, etc). If you have California income, you still owe them taxes, but need to file as a non-resident. Your situation isn't unique, but you're not approaching this correctly if you want to avoid taxes. I'm in your situation, but did a bit of research and put in the effort to do this in a way that makes it way less likely I'll be audited by CA.

matttproud 5y ago

I was in a similar boat a decade ago. I read the FTB documentation (FTB 1031 Sect. E-L) carefully and just accepted it would be subjective criteria test in court if it ever came down to it. I started keeping immaculate records (motivated by the IRS' substantial presence test or bona fide residence test depending on the year and where the family was in terms of which country it was in — e.g., moving to another). The main points that were relevant — memory serves — were a permanent work contract in the new country and having dissolved housing contracts and similar in CA. My advice: if going abroad, aim to promote your residency status in the new country to "permanent residency" (cf. Green Card, Niederlassungserlaubnis, Niederlassungsbewilligung) over just being permitted either temporary or long-term (cf. Aufenthaltserlaubnis, Kurzaufenthaltsbewilligung). It takes some work to earn permanent residency over the others (e.g., being in good standing, language mastery, and ability to substantively demonstrate financial independence). The idea of earning permanent residency (in a place where it's difficult to earn it) and throwing it away to return to CA suddenly would probably appear preposterous in court in terms of FTB arguing that you're just away from CA temporarily. I kept a US driver license out of convenience in CA. Never was a problem, though I transitioned it to another state where I had family ties and a mailing address hear later. I kept my CA bank account out of practicality. It was the only bank I had dealt with out of about six in rapid succession that was supportive and friendly with my living abroad (e.g., power of attorney, wire transfers without being in-person). Voter registration in CA is fine per Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA). You are entitled your vote; what will differ is whether the state grants you purely federal or also local voting rights. You get federal at a minimum. UOCAVA is a bit hand-wavy with the criteria, so I did transfer my voter registration to the other state where I had the license. For the one year I was half-in California while also being abroad, I still filed taxes accordingly for that year for CA. IIRC, I might have even filed 0 in a CA FTB form for the next year. So: in short, multiple years with "weak" bureaucratic carryover ties in CA without issue, but ultimately transferred all matters aside from bank account to a state with deeper ties (even if living abroad). Never an issue. The real monster, which dates back to the US Civil War, is the need to pay and file taxes when domiciled abroad. You can then add FATCA on top of that as a cherry. The CA FTB is a dream compared to the IRS here. I’ve basically accepted that this situation won’t improve in my lifetime. Maybe my children’s.

refurb 5y ago
This is my understanding as well. It's not that keeping a CA drivers license means you are a resident, it's just one (of many) factors the FTB will use to determine whether or not you are a resident. If you can break major ties with CA (not earning income in the state, you don't have a home in the state, you spend less than 30 days a year in the state) and show substantial evidence of residency in another place (employment contract, primary residence, etc) then it's a bit cleaner.

kenneth 5y ago

I'm not American. I moved from California to Hong Kong years ago. Somehow, I'm still supposed to be filing tax returns in the US and in CA. It's absolutely bonkers. I haven't stepped foot in the US in >18mo. The USA won't let go of their hold on me, forcing me to pay taxes in a country and state I don't live, and refuses to consider me a non-resident unless I go through a complex process to renounce my green card, and give it a long buffer time. It's absurd. I wish I could just tell them to shove it, but sadly I do need the ability to come back for the occasional work meeting and personal reasons.

ryan_lane 5y ago

Your passport is a valid US ID. You can vote nationally, but if you are no longer a California resident, you can't vote for any parts of the state elections. Get a virtual mailbox, ideally in another state (like Washington, Texas, etc). If you have California income, you still owe them taxes, but need to file as a non-resident. Your situation isn't unique, but you're not approaching this correctly if you want to avoid taxes. I'm in your situation, but did a bit of research and put in the effort to do this in a way that makes it way less likely I'll be audited by CA.