19 ms·

Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

397 points by jamesgagan 15y ago

jamesgagan 15y ago
I find this bit particularly damning: "During this call and in messages thereafter, he requested that I shut down the blog altogether or limit its access, and a few weeks later, suggested that I update the blog with a “twist" of good news so as to “complete[s] the story”. Seems like we are all still waiting for the "good news" ending to this tale.
- freddealmeida 15y ago
  I'm more disappointed with airbnb screwing this up than that there are bad people using the site. They should have dropped everything to fix this. I wonder what pg thinks about this.
  - kooshball 15y ago
    I'm curious to hear if PG even knew about this before it blew up.
    - Joakal 15y ago
      That's pretty unfair to PG since he's not involved in AirBnB's support.
  - palish 15y ago
    I doubt Airbnb cares what pg thinks. I'm just guessing, but it seems likely Airbnb see themselves as "underdogs, displacing the hotel industry". The fact that they care so much how EJ phrased her post after her home was completely destroyed (look around you right now --- imagine all of that being gone and never coming back) indicates they have an ego to match. So no, pg can't help them, and no one else can either. It's up to them to fix or break their billion-dollar company.
    - pseudonym 15y ago
      It's obvious that AirBnB only cares about attempting to spin it. I'm more curious if pg is going to work "how (not) to handle a PR crisis" into the YCombinator syllabus.
- pseudonym 15y ago
  I don't know what they're smoking over there, honestly. Cut off all contact through their CS to the victim, and then have a cofounder want to "meet them for coffee"? After asking her to take down the blog or give it a positive-twist ending? I don't know what they're expecting but I'm hard-pressed to think of what they could do worse, short of joking about it on twitter. Edit: Holy god, I didn't realize the actual timeframe of this was five weeks. AirBnB is going to have to crucify someone for a "bad judgement call" in terms of the sudden Customer Service cutoff if they want to have any positive spin coming off of this, I think. Also, props to this brave lady for the point-by-point shutdown of their PR statement. I don't know many people who would have the guts to stand up to a company, especially after what she's been through, both from the original incident and AirBnB's response after her initial blog post.
  - gojomo 15y ago
    What you're calling a 'sudden Customer Service cutoff' is actually when (from victim's account) communication switched to being with a cofounder. That's escalation and unification, and it's not fair to portray a direct open line to the boss as a 'cutoff'. (That the victim portrays it that way suggests they may have had better rapport with the original CS liason. Perhaps that person included more social/emotional niceties in more frequent communications. Not everyone is as good at the sort of 'inquiry into my current emotional state' that this victim might find comforting.)
    - _delirium 15y ago
      Yeah, I think that's structurally the correct response (escalate her directly to the founders), but unless the cofounder is actually good at that kind of thing (apparently not), they probably should've additionally assigned someone who is good at it as a contact person to check up on her situation / provide assistance / etc. Heck, if the original CS rep had good rapport, maybe the right response would be to keep him/her as the main contact person, but escalate the CS rep into more of a personal representative of the founders, with more authority to provide assistance, and a direct line to keep them updated. Of course, that's a guess with hindsight.
    - deleted 15y ago
- gojomo 15y ago
  This is the paraphrased account from a hurt and angry person. It may accurately portray how the victim felt, but not the intended emphasis of the speaker. Beware making any 'damning' conclusions.
bignoggins 15y ago
I'm using airbnb in Berlin right now. Two days ago I received a knock on my door. Turns out it was the real owner of the apartment and he had the Paperwork to prove it. Fortunately he was nice enough to let us stay without compensation. When I went to the airbnb website to try and call them all I got was a web message box. I filled out a message and sent it on its way but that's a pretty lousy system. Luckily for me my situation is nowhere as bad as ej but airbnb really needs a 24 hour hotline. I've had many good experiences but all it takes is that one time.
- dlss 15y ago
  Exactly. Based on EJ's description of AirBnB customer service, and the 2,000,000 bookings the founders cited earlier today, we'd be fools to think this was the first time someone broke the law using AirBnB -- I'm guessing the others just gave up on support after being ignored, and focused on talking to the police. The real black eye here is the kind of support EJ received before she wrote her blog post -- most people can't write that well and don't have readers who will submit the story to HN.
  - bignoggins 15y ago
    I am giving a statement to the police later today along with a lawyer and the real owner of the apartment. I'm not sure how far this will escalate here in Germany but I'd imagine as airbnb has facilitated a transaction with a criminal the German authorities will want to pursue further. I'm not the victim here, but the owner is.
    - dlss 15y ago
      Right -- I'm pointing out that experiences like yours are probably fairly common. In the comments to the other story, people kept talking about how it is safe to rent using AirBnB. If the owner here had been less understanding, I'm guessing you would have at least spent the night in jail (assuming you speak German and everything else went well).
      - 15y ago
ColinWright 15y ago
This article on TC adds nothing at all. Original blog post: http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare-no-end-in-sight.html http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare... HN submission of that blog post for discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820615 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820615 ======== ADDED IN EDIT: Clearly this is contentious - it went up to two points, now as I write this it's down to zero, and who knows where it will go next. Yes, I agree, sometimes TechCrunch adds information, but I claim that in this case it doesn't. Further, I claim that by reading only the excerpts they include, you are not being given the whole picture as written by the blog author. The post is well-written and well-crafted - providing summary excerpts does not give the full impact or the full situation. And, given that the crunchy bits don't actually add anything, let me quote from http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html where it says: Please submit the original source. If a blog post reports on something they found on another site, submit the latter.
- jamesgagan 15y ago
  I disagree - people are always interested in TechCrunch's take on things. Indeed, AirBNB used it as their PR channel the other day ( http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/27/on-safety-a-word-from-airbnb/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/27/on-safety-a-word-from-airbn...) so linking to the TC article certainly has value.
  - ColinWright 15y ago
    Agree to disagree - I'm content with that. In my opinion sometimes TC actually adds something, but this time it really doesn't.
- dpritchett 15y ago
  The real news here is "TechCrunch isn't sleeping on the AirBnB/EJ story", especially given that EJ's followup post is still on the front page. The important details are in the news cycle itself: 1) EJ post tops the HN front page 2) HuffPo-owned TechCrunch reblogs it 3) TC posts a defense from an AirBnB cofounder 4) EJ posts a "still no help from AirBnB" followup 5) TC reblogs that as well in an attempt to cover both sides of the story
JacobAldridge 15y ago
Worth noting that, despite recent large valuations and funding rounds, the founders of Airbnb are still driving their baby and have a massive emotional attachment to it. (As do all business owners.) This is their first significant black eye (the Craigslist stuff was far more limited in its audience reach), and has the potential to derail a company that's only 2 years old. Of course they're going to be responding emotionally, and unfortunately that means perhaps doing too much or doing the wrong thing (like suggesting to meet for coffee without asking how EJ is coping). Now, that emotional involvement with the business is considerably less than the emotion of coming home to discover your house has been ransacked, so I'm not trying to compare. I'm just observing that Airbnb's response (for better or worse) is not devoid of emotional triggers either. I do hope EJ is receiving the support she needs and am sure she will get through this. I similarly hope the ongoing support the Airbnb founders are receiving recognises the feelings element of running a large business through the prism of their emotional attachment.
- Maro 15y ago
  I donwvoted you. I don't see how what you write is relevant. Everybody is emotionally attached to their startups, including me, so?
  - JacobAldridge 15y ago
    So ... I don't believe that level of emotional attachment is well understood by people who don't have their own business. There's criticism - in this thread and elsewhere - of how Airbnb have handled this whole situation, especially some of the information in the OP. I think there would be less criticism if more people understood the emotions of being a business owner - emotions lead us to do non-rational things. Edit: To add how good it was to see someone explain a downvote, so we could continue a discussion.
    - Maro 15y ago
      Yes, the emotional attachment that founders have with their startups is pretty crazy. I think that rational founders learn to normalize it over the years though, at least that's what happened to me. Criticism sucks, but with a company like Airbnb that's the deal, and the founders knew it from the get go. This is the price (one of many) they pay for their eventual big payday. Overall, it's a pretty good deal though =)
compnerd 15y ago
I'm starting to get the feeling that the Airbnb founders will do "whatever" it takes, to see their business succeed.
- chubot 15y ago
  Yeah, first the craigslist thing, now this. They seem unconcerned with "evil". I guess that's how businesses succeed in our system. I get the feeling that it's pretty chaotic over there. My first AirBNB experience was filled with crazy bugs (the messaging system, logins). It seems they're trying to get huge fast rather than taking the time to polish the experience.
BasDirks 15y ago
Acquaintances have said they'd probably not use Airbnb for fear of problems like this. After this incident and Airbnb's response, they will never even consider it. And they will tell all their acquaintances, etc, etc.. Airbnb's Achilles' heel is the deep-rooted fear of someone fucking up home. That they did not patch this with a good backup-plan should be a warning to investors.
- nkassis 15y ago
  "That they did not patch this with a good backup-plan should be a warning to investors." Yeah this is their biggest problem here they seem to have no crisis plan at all. Nothing.
- sp332 15y ago
  What backup plan can you have for someone destroying your house, copying all your documents, and stealing your grandmother's jewelery?
  - BasDirks 15y ago
    Airbnb should have had a backup plan, not the victim. Note: i feel terrible for the Airbnb folks. I hope they get out of this mess.
  - felipemnoa 15y ago
    They should be covered by some type of insurance so that they can compensate the owner or vice-versa. Things like this will happen and continue to happen.
nodata 15y ago
This is really crappy and airbnb fucked up big time, twice now. But... there's something odd about the way the victim writes, and I don't understand why it's jumping out at me: "bouncing between friends’ homes".. "clutching my pillow".. "breathing through panic attacks".. "scouring the city’s pawn shops".. "this too shall pass and I will be made whole again."
- bignoggins 15y ago
  She is just trying to convey her emotions. I think her style is appropriate for the situation.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- btheroux 15y ago
  Pictures would be nice. Or a copy of the police report works as great proof.
  - vnchr 15y ago
    It seems both of those could be interfering with the investigation. She made the point that she had not posted pictures as an example of cooperating with the process between AirBnB and the police.
- VladRussian 15y ago
  as one smart commenter http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820778 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820778 has finally got it (and as usually - once somebody was able to get it and explained to the rest of us, it seems obvious ) - PTSD
  - hluska 15y ago
    I'm sorry, but I disagree with you (and upvoted that post). While post traumatic stress disorder is highly individualistic, one of the classic symptoms is a desire not to be reminded of the trauma (especially only five weeks after). Usually, at this point, a victim would be doing everything possible not to think of it. Granted, PTSD is highly individualistic, but if you read the relevant medical literature, this is not a classic case.
latch 15y ago
I was the main anti-AirBnB poster last time around...but.. I gotta say, something about all this now seems like it's a set up for a big fat lawsuit. I've never been violated this way (or anything close to it), so maybe I'm being insensitive, but this is crossing into whining territory to me. If you want to complain about a _really_ bad experience, a lack of customer support, and insensitive and money-focused founders, that's fine. But I don't really need to hear about your pillow-clutching and fading normalcy.
- dasil003 15y ago
  Well, if it's fraudulent that's one thing. But if the story is entirely true, then who really gives a fuck what you need to hear?
- kilian 15y ago
  You could use some empathy, my friend.
arepb 15y ago
I barely invite my friends over, why would I let a random into my house, even for $(amount)?
- gwern 15y ago
  Everyone generalizes from one example; at least, I know I do.
bprater 15y ago
I'm surprised the mainstream media hasn't picked this up. It has all the right plot points to drive a story -- over-the-top crime, police can't find the persons involved, the victim is striking back at the company who started the mess.
- prof 15y ago
  Did the company start the mess?
niekmaas 15y ago
How does this work legally? Is it still burglary when the people were allowed in the house? Of course taking things that do not below to you is theft. But going through someones documents, is that illegal?
- pseudonym 15y ago
  I'm pretty sure AirBnB is already pretty sketchy when it comes to legality, just from the fact that a lot of apartments explicitly disallow subletting. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a later follow-up saying that this lady is on the hook for any damage done to the apartment.
- evilduck 15y ago
  Not a lawyer and I don't know anything about San Francisco laws, but I'm a former police dispatcher and I've worked in the insurance industry. Burglary is usually just breaking and entering plus some other crime. Breaking (the legal term) doesn't actually require anything be literally broken to gain entry (i.e. theft or duplication of keys and lockpicking still qualify), and you can still "break" into rooms of a home you've been invited into in some jurisdictions; so if you were not explicitly permitted into an area and a reasonable attempt to prevent you from entering was made (closed door, locks, gates, etc), it's breaking. Not all jurisdictions require a theft to occur for burglary to have been committed, there's a multitude of crimes that might qualify: kidnapping, assault, battery, rape, arson, theft, vandalism, and others might all be valid secondary crimes that would create a burglary and some places don't even require that, the mere act of breaking and entering is sufficient. Going through someone's document may not be criminal, but copying the documents is probably criminal identity theft and that in tandem with them being in a locked away closet would probably add burglary to the charges even though the host had invited the guests into the house. From the original post's description of events, there'd still be felony vandalism and felony theft too, although if she actually reported to the police that she had essentially sublet her apartment through AirBnB, she's most certainly exempt from making insurance claims that would make her whole again.
sriramk 15y ago
If that AirBnb co-founder really asked her to tone down her post because it would mess with future financing, that's just sad. Talk about inappropriate timing and priorities
- speckledjim 15y ago
  It's all about money and greed. Sad indeedy.
  - veyron 15y ago
    Airbnb is a business. And honestly their behavior is exactly what I would expect from them: dont admit any liability, offer words of consolement.
    - speckledjim 15y ago
      This isn't an isolated incident though. Their whole business model pretty much is built on the fact that things like this will happen. A lot.
      - veyron 15y ago
        Given that they control the communication, the implied business model is that trustworthy people will be using the service. If they truly expected these types of incidents to happen a lot, they would require more information from people (to be able to trace and hold visitors accountable) and have some sort of legalese to ensure that they would never be held liable.
markbao 15y ago
Wow. I love AirBnB, and I hate to say it, but that was a completely boneheaded move. There is absolutely no doubt that EJ is very public on this issue. If it's true that AirBnB tried to cover up the problem, then why? Did the founders think that EJ wouldn't turn around and say that they're asking her to remove the post? Handling this situation should be a top priority for AirBnB. There's the potential that the mainstream media could have a field day with this. The incident will undoubtedly be part of the hotel lobbyists' list of reasons AirBnB should be made illegal. And if the investigation reveals that they were cooking drugs in the place, that's even more damning. It's disappointing to see this happen to one of the most interesting startups as of late, and I hope they turn around their attitude for the better. This is already really damaging, but it could be way worse if things don't change.
- watchandwait 15y ago
  It isn't disappointing, it is predictable. AirBnB has skirted the rules from day one, when they launched by spamming Craiglist. AirBnB brokers a service that is illegal in many jurisdictions, and they go out of their way to mask the serious risks their users (both renters and owners) are taking. And when the obvious happens, their response is self-serving.
  - singular 15y ago
    Actually that was apparently not sanctioned, rather the work of some contractors acting off their own back.[1] [1]:http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2815183 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2815183
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
      - adw 15y ago
        The founders hired the contractors. I don't think it's fair to call AirBnB spammers, and it's unreasonable to assume malice, but questions around oversight and transparency are reasonable ones to ask.
farrel 15y ago
AirBnB gives the illusion that you can just rent out your apartment without any precautions. I've stayed in a few dedicated holiday apartments and almost without fail: 1) They are furnished with the basics and that's it. No valuables and nothing that can not be easily replaced. 2) The owner or an employed managing agent interacted with us (either at the apartment or when we fetched the keys) when we arrived and left. 3) They had insurance in place and 80% of the time when I signed for the apartment I was also signing my own liability. If you are prepared to rent out a fully furnished (and in this case full of valuables) apartment to strangers you need to be prepared for the potential massive downside. 99% of your guests may be hassle free but it just takes that 1% to wipe out any financial upside and even then they may not even do it on purpose - accidents can and do happen.
- hussong 15y ago
  I'd say your last sentence applies to renting out any kind of apartment. Once you catch the occasional deadbeat tenant (not paying rent for months, damaging the floors etc.), your business case is FUBR.
beedogs 15y ago
Airbnb really needs to pull their head out of their ass on this one. This seems like it could literally destroy their company.
vessenes 15y ago
This is a seriously damning essay from someone who's clearly working through PTSD issues (or is an amazing liar). Part of the issue is that young fast-growth CEOs don't major on empathy, typically. It's somewhat contrary to the necessities of the job. These co-founders have absolutely no concept of how this woman feels, or if they do, they have determined that they won't let her know about it. The best thing say Paul Graham could do would be to hire them a crisis management coach, stat. While the co-founders are reportedly worrying a bit about valuation right now, they could (and should) be turning this into an amazing PR story; massively over-compensating her, setting up a Lloyds-based insurance coverage program, appearing on something like Oprah to talk over how it felt, and what we can all do as we're moving into this awesome social-based home sharing..
- pseudonym 15y ago
  >>or is an amazing liar I know that people were doubting the veracity of the story in the first place, but I think the initial AirBnB PR statement laid that to rest. At this point, what would EJ gain by lying? Anything that's a blatant lie could just be replied with by "Nope" by AirBnB, and she could only hurt her case by lying about anything right now. Honestly, after what appears to be a month with no help, no reply, no customer service, veiled threats, and an offer to "get a cup of coffee"...I'm honestly surprised this essay isn't more vitriolic.
  - fab13n 15y ago
    (Disclaimer: I'm not saying that she's lying, and I see no element that makes me believe that she lies. I don't even see any concrete element pointing to a conspiracy, I'm merely pondering how credible it might be). > what would EJ gain by lying? AirBnB has the potential to become very disruptive for the whole hostel industry. This means that there are people, some of them with deep pockets, some of them less than honest, and some of them both, who really want them to fail. What's AirBnB's main challenge? It needs people to trust each other, in a society which promotes mistrust. The easiest way to destroy them is to prevent this trust from being created and maintained. If you wanted to destroy them in a shady way, your best bet would be to create a smear campaign based on a traumatizing violation, exactly such as what allegedly happened to this woman. Moreover, if you were to create such a smear campaign, your best bet wouldn't be to have an accomplice playing the victim: it would be to choose a perfect genuine victim (likable, vocal, blogging, emotionally sensitive, and with good writing skills), and send real thugs actually destroy her home in the most traumatizing way, including psychopathic "nice" e-mails sent while wrecking the place havoc.
sixty 15y ago
airbnb need to realise this will not go away. The way I see it, their two main options are: 1) hire a PR firm, lawyer up and let the spin doctors handle things. With the amount of money they have, this is a real option. They could probably convince or coerce (bully?) the victim into accepting a settlement in exchange for keeping quiet. The PR machine would then be free to write (or rewrite) the story as they see fit. 2) Come clean. Realise that it's never the victim's fault. Compensate her financially for her loss. Offer to provide counselling. Help her with the logistics of finding and moving to a new place. Work with the victim (and other airbnb users) to figure out how to reduce the chances of this happening again. And all the while, document everything. Brian C speaks of openness and transparency - show us, don't tell us.
- rrrazdan 15y ago
  Not a reflection on Brian, ( I know nothing about him) but it is my observation that 'talking' about openness and transparency is easy. Implementing it in a competitive environment is difficult.
cageface 15y ago
This is bad enough but what happens when the inevitable assault, rape or murder finally occurs? Screening people is a chicken & egg problem because if you only rent to people with a ton of positive history nobody new gets in. The only solution I can see is digging way deeper into the personal background of a prospective tenant than any hotel would dare.
ISeemToBeAVerb 15y ago
This is one of those sad instances where you see a really great company forget their roots and give their soul wholeheartedly to the idea of becoming huge. This was going to happen eventually. In fact, this issue is the biggest chink in the chain of the whole collaborative consumption ideal. The idea of social sharing is amazing, but the companies working in this space should know that eventually someone would come along and exploit the system for nefarious purposes. It's great that some of these companies are getting funding to grow, but did no one think that this was a possibility? Did no one think this could happen? I love the idea of AirBnB, but they need to understand that they have a responsibility to their community that far surpasses their responsibility to any funding they receive.
preavy 15y ago
The story is on the front page of this morning's Financial Times (UK edition): http://www.politicshome.com/timthumb.php?w=450&src=%2Fimages%2F%2F1.1.Front_Pages%2Fft_29711.png http://www.politicshome.com/timthumb.php?w=450&src=%2Fim... Story here: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9aac5f80-b924-11e0-bd87-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1TJLQ6rSb http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9aac5f80-b924-11e0-bd87-00144feabd...
- TeMPOraL 15y ago
  That's the old story. They haven't seen yet the newest post. When they will have, all hell will break loose for AirBNB.
yardie 15y ago
Airbnb is one of the good ideas that came out of the SF/SV area that wasn't really means tested and a cock-up like this was bound to occur. It places an incredible amount of trust in the hosts and guests. This is alright I guess for some places but definitely not others. I assume that if Airbnb got its start in Detroit, for example, and not San Francisco then safety and security would have a different context. For me, when I was in university I left the door to my apartment unlocked, a lot. I knew everyone in our building and had so many people coming and going from my place that it was easier that way. Plus, being a broke college student the most expensive thing in the apartment was the bottles of liquor :-). But this is definitely not something I would do in any other city. EJ assumed that keeping valuables in a locked closet would be enough. Severely overestimating the role a locked closet plays in a house. Being a traveller myself I am constantly worried about the security of my house. Renting it out to a stranger with my valuables still inside would drive me nuts. I like the idea of airbnb but I haven't used them because they don't have listings for the places I go. And the thought of having to move all the expensive stuff out of my place, pay for storage, and move it back when I arrive is a bigger hassle than I can deal with.
braindead_in 15y ago
I wonder how CouchSurfing managed such issues. I am sure it must have happened with CouchSurfing too. I know that they have ratings for members and past history. I guess you can get an impression of the trustworthiness. But then this sort of thing can happen too.
- kyleslattery 15y ago
  The thing with CouchSurfing is that the guest is not generally alone in the apartment--it's a more social interaction, where the host is entertaining you, showing you around, etc. In Airbnb's case, the guest is left alone in the apartment, and there isn't as much interaction between the host and guest.
ig1 15y ago
Try googling for "craigslist murder" or "gumtree stabbing", crimes happen. The classified industry is still alive. Foursquare and Twitter stalking didn't kill either of those products. The London Metropolitan police typically deal with 50-100 crimes related to online classified ads a year. People are incredibly poor at judging risks so things like this get blown out of proportion. You need to look at the context and compare against other risks. For example what's the risk of your house get burgled if you go on holiday and leave it empty for a few weeks ?
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
brianchesky 15y ago
Brian Chesky (Airbnb CEO) here. My heart goes out to our host. My co-founder has contacted her multiple times, as recently as last night, and we have again offered to help her in any way that she needs. We will continue to make ourselves available to her to do whatever she asks of us in this time of need. We have encouraged her to reach us so that we can help her through this, and we are standing by.
JoachimSchipper 15y ago
This should not be [dead] (and please don't downvote me because you disagree with him; on the other hand, perhaps someone should tell him): "brianchesky 3 minutes ago [dead] Brian Chesky (Airbnb CEO) here. My heart goes out to our host. My co-founder has contacted her multiple times, as recently as last night, and we have again offered to help her in any way that she needs. We will continue to make ourselves available to her to do whatever she asks of us in this time of need. We have encouraged her to reach us so that we can help her through this, and we are standing by."
- sp332 15y ago
  It's dead because he copy&pasted the exact same text on the other thread. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2821305 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2821305
blackiron 15y ago
Some strange things to note about this case: - she rants about airbnb, but not so much about the thieves.. in those Ebay scam cases the victim usually directs his/her anger and takes action toward the scammer, not towards ebay. She reports very little about the thieves and the progress of the police investigation. - Are these psychotic rockstar thieves so expert at hiding their identity? its a very 'proffesional' job then.. which can raise more points to the hotel lobby conspiracy theory. - I thought that you use airbnb to rent extra properties; not your home with your documents, jewels, money, personal diary and what not in there.
- awa 15y ago
  Regarding - I thought that you use airbnb to rent extra properties; not your home with your documents, jewels, money, personal diary and what not in there. Nope. You use vrbo or an external agency for your extra property. You use airbnb for renting the extra room in the house or a week you're away from your place. That's how airbnb spins it and that's how most places are listed on the site
ck2 15y ago
If you care for the reaction from someone who doesn't really know/understand what Airbnb is: "Who lets strangers into their home, unsupervised?" Does make some sense, right? Who would?
- Osiris 15y ago
  I have never used the service, but I always assumed that they pre-screened the customers and the hosts. I'm really surprised to hear that they don't have a screening process, like background checks, and that they don't carry some for on insurance to cover damages. They certainly don't seem to make the effort to inform hosts of those two points. Hosts should be completely aware that AirBnB, 1) does NO background checks or verifications on possible tenants, and 2) does NOT insure any damages.
  - ck2 15y ago
    TSA and cops are both screened before they are hired, doesn't prevent the horror stories. How do you know the people who do the screening actually do anything? What's their "skin in the game"?
  - Jilly 15y ago
    If people are unable to read the TOS, which states Airbnb does no background checks not sure how it's Airbnb's fault when something goes amiss. They do not vet either the hosts or the renters. Either party could be throwing major shade and basically if you're a person devoid of common sense and good judgment the services provided by Airbnb probably aren't for you. Personally, I could not use either because my HOA expressly forbids short term leases for the reasons driven home by this incident.
Maro 15y ago
This reminds me of Paypal, where the founders said they won the online payments game because they figured out how to deal with fraud. Maybe that's one of the keys to success here, figuring out how to deal with these cases at the business plan level.
deleted 15y ago
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ivankirigin 15y ago
Can we all admit that techcrunch gets page views by spreading FUD? Read original sources for this case
int3rnaut 15y ago
I don't know why but on top of feeling bad for this woman, I feel bad for the AirBnB guys because the whole concept is so idealistic and believes in the good in people--if only everyone represented humanity the way they envisioned this from the birth of their idea; that would truly be a good world.
rdouble 15y ago
This is a ridiculous article. Instead of just quoting an anonymous blog post, TechCrunch could be calling AirBNB, calling the victim, digging up the police report, locating the relevant profiles on AirBNB, and so on, and so forth. They have the resources, they could contributing to the understanding of this event, rather than just spreading FUD. There is no journalism present whatsoever, it is pure spin.
- Maxious 15y ago
  TechCrunch and FT are reporting on this but EJ's latest post says "2. Other than occasionally sharing the link to my blog, I have made no statements to nor have I been interviewed by the press - yet." I'm sure the FT must have a code of conduct around victims of crime (see the BBC one @ http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/page/guidelines-crime-witnesses-victims/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/page/gui...) to ensure they don't complicate matters but surely they could have tried to contact EJ to confirm what they were going to print was correct.
- Jilly 15y ago
  Exactly. And if she's not the homeowner where is the actual homeowner in all of this?
stef25 15y ago
As much as this sucks for EJ, she is being quite the crybaby. This has nothing to do with AirBnB and everything to do with the fact she handed over the keys to her personal flat (containing many expensive items and personal documents) to a complete stranger. The medium through which this stranger found you, be it a pinboard at a supermarket, craiglist, airbnb or through a foaf, is irrelevant. Initially AirBnB may have been populated with California Apple fan boys (you can trust), but it's just a matter of time before Joe six-pack (who you maybe can't trust so much) gets on there. If you rent out your place through AirBnB it should be YOUR responsibility to vet the person and / or make sure there is little to steal / destroy. This isn't the responsibility of the founders of AirBnB.
- tygorius 15y ago
  This has nothing to do with AirBnB Yes, so far as we know, the persons who robbed and trashed EJ's home were not employees of AirBnB. In just about every other respect, however, this has everything to do with AirBnB. Four big points that have struck me: * From a business perpective, such incidents were inevitable and yet the company seems to have had no crisis management plan in place. That is simply astounding. * From a consumer perspective, it's worth warning potential users of the service that the company's prior attitude was "Don't worry, no one will steal your grand piano". As EJ points out, if AirBnB's "service" offers no more protection and fewer warnings than a free Craigslist alternative, you may want to reconsider using them. * Given that some small percentage of renters are intent on breaking through your locked doors and storage cabinets looking for valuables, you might just want to reconsider renting your home out to people you don't personally know and trust. At the very least, a viewing of "Pacific Heights" is in order. (A landlord acquaintence suggested the film be required viewing for anyone who is considering becoming a landlord.) This might not seem AirBnB-relevant at first, but when you consider AirBnB's facile "grand piano" Web page, it seems quite relevant. * Imagine if EJ had gotten suspicious and decided to check up on the renters herself or asked a friend to do it for her. Scenarios escalating to rape and/or murder are not farfetched. Even if you can ignore the pain and suffering of the victims, imagine what a PR disaster that would have been for AirBnB. (Which brings us back to the first point.)
dreamdu5t 15y ago
If this was bound to happen, I wonder why AirBnB didn't have a better contingency plan.
shawnee_ 15y ago
The headline is a bit too much, even for TechCrunch. EJ is not "homeless". She almost certainly has never been homeless and will never be homeless; this is an insult to people who have been homeless, broke, and literally have nowhere to go. Choosing to not stay in a $3.8K / month loft in SF does not a homeless person make. And she's at least a bit responsible for feeding the sensationalism of this; it is coming off a bit Drama Queen.
- jgmmo 15y ago
  Her nickname is EJ, and she is indeed homeless. Her home was destroyed and ever since she has been bouncing around staying with friends. She is now without a home - that doesn't mean she is sleeping in the subway station, but it does mean she doesn't have a permanent residence anymore. Hence, homeless.
mxavier 15y ago
A little OT from the actual story but I find it annoying when TechCrunch and similar sites find a random picture to put near the headline. I suppose the point of this is to attract more eyes to the article, but when the story is about someone getting their home trashed and you show some completely different house that looks like a bulldozer drove through it, I can't help but think you're creating an association that is a best worthless and at worst misleading. Pictures in articles serve a purpose and that purpose certainly isn't to remind me what a trashed house is.
iamdave 15y ago
I'm a little less worried about what the MSM will do here (editorialize and paint the hotel industry, as some other HNers have said as golden boys), I'm actually curious to see how someone up on Capitol Hill is going to react to this.
hootmon 15y ago
Stupid is as stupid does. AirBnB sells 'free lunch' to the gullible, who QQ like mad when they get what they paid for. The short attention span generation is so pwned.
Jilly 15y ago
I'm sorry, but very little of this story rings true for me. "EJ" reminds me of a roommate I had in college who was a serious drama queen. If she felt wronged by you there was no remedy short of spending every moment lavishing her attention and apologizes (and who has time for that?) that would appease here and it was never enough. I don't doubt AirBnB offered assistance and "EJ" herself said so. However, with a drama queen it is never about finite forms of attention (money, vindication, etc) but renewable sources where she is able to maintain victimhood without taking a shred of responsibility for her part (no matter how small) in the events that are alleged to have unfolded. I mean what kind of drama queen psycho ex carries on about a CEO wanting to meet her for coffee, but not asking about her feelings? What are they dating or something? Nobody cares about her "feelings" feelings are transient and not fact. What they want is to solve the problem and since they are men, they're having some real problems understanding what a losing game they're playing when the opposing side is a drama queen.

397 points by jamesgagan 15y ago

I find this bit particularly damning: "During this call and in messages thereafter, he requested that I shut down the blog altogether or limit its access, and a few weeks later, suggested that I update the blog with a “twist" of good news so as to “complete[s] the story”. Seems like we are all still waiting for the "good news" ending to this tale.

freddealmeida 15y ago
I'm more disappointed with airbnb screwing this up than that there are bad people using the site. They should have dropped everything to fix this. I wonder what pg thinks about this.
- kooshball 15y ago
  I'm curious to hear if PG even knew about this before it blew up.
  - Joakal 15y ago
    That's pretty unfair to PG since he's not involved in AirBnB's support.
- palish 15y ago
  I doubt Airbnb cares what pg thinks. I'm just guessing, but it seems likely Airbnb see themselves as "underdogs, displacing the hotel industry". The fact that they care so much how EJ phrased her post after her home was completely destroyed (look around you right now --- imagine all of that being gone and never coming back) indicates they have an ego to match. So no, pg can't help them, and no one else can either. It's up to them to fix or break their billion-dollar company.
  - pseudonym 15y ago
    It's obvious that AirBnB only cares about attempting to spin it. I'm more curious if pg is going to work "how (not) to handle a PR crisis" into the YCombinator syllabus.
pseudonym 15y ago
I don't know what they're smoking over there, honestly. Cut off all contact through their CS to the victim, and then have a cofounder want to "meet them for coffee"? After asking her to take down the blog or give it a positive-twist ending? I don't know what they're expecting but I'm hard-pressed to think of what they could do worse, short of joking about it on twitter. Edit: Holy god, I didn't realize the actual timeframe of this was five weeks. AirBnB is going to have to crucify someone for a "bad judgement call" in terms of the sudden Customer Service cutoff if they want to have any positive spin coming off of this, I think. Also, props to this brave lady for the point-by-point shutdown of their PR statement. I don't know many people who would have the guts to stand up to a company, especially after what she's been through, both from the original incident and AirBnB's response after her initial blog post.
- gojomo 15y ago
  What you're calling a 'sudden Customer Service cutoff' is actually when (from victim's account) communication switched to being with a cofounder. That's escalation and unification, and it's not fair to portray a direct open line to the boss as a 'cutoff'. (That the victim portrays it that way suggests they may have had better rapport with the original CS liason. Perhaps that person included more social/emotional niceties in more frequent communications. Not everyone is as good at the sort of 'inquiry into my current emotional state' that this victim might find comforting.)
  - _delirium 15y ago
    Yeah, I think that's structurally the correct response (escalate her directly to the founders), but unless the cofounder is actually good at that kind of thing (apparently not), they probably should've additionally assigned someone who is good at it as a contact person to check up on her situation / provide assistance / etc. Heck, if the original CS rep had good rapport, maybe the right response would be to keep him/her as the main contact person, but escalate the CS rep into more of a personal representative of the founders, with more authority to provide assistance, and a direct line to keep them updated. Of course, that's a guess with hindsight.
  - deleted 15y ago
gojomo 15y ago
This is the paraphrased account from a hurt and angry person. It may accurately portray how the victim felt, but not the intended emphasis of the speaker. Beware making any 'damning' conclusions.

bignoggins 15y ago

I'm using airbnb in Berlin right now. Two days ago I received a knock on my door. Turns out it was the real owner of the apartment and he had the Paperwork to prove it. Fortunately he was nice enough to let us stay without compensation. When I went to the airbnb website to try and call them all I got was a web message box. I filled out a message and sent it on its way but that's a pretty lousy system. Luckily for me my situation is nowhere as bad as ej but airbnb really needs a 24 hour hotline. I've had many good experiences but all it takes is that one time.

dlss 15y ago
Exactly. Based on EJ's description of AirBnB customer service, and the 2,000,000 bookings the founders cited earlier today, we'd be fools to think this was the first time someone broke the law using AirBnB -- I'm guessing the others just gave up on support after being ignored, and focused on talking to the police. The real black eye here is the kind of support EJ received before she wrote her blog post -- most people can't write that well and don't have readers who will submit the story to HN.
- bignoggins 15y ago
  I am giving a statement to the police later today along with a lawyer and the real owner of the apartment. I'm not sure how far this will escalate here in Germany but I'd imagine as airbnb has facilitated a transaction with a criminal the German authorities will want to pursue further. I'm not the victim here, but the owner is.
  - dlss 15y ago
    Right -- I'm pointing out that experiences like yours are probably fairly common. In the comments to the other story, people kept talking about how it is safe to rent using AirBnB. If the owner here had been less understanding, I'm guessing you would have at least spent the night in jail (assuming you speak German and everything else went well).
    - 15y ago

ColinWright 15y ago

This article on TC adds nothing at all. Original blog post: http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare-no-end-in-sight.html http://ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2011/07/airbnb-nightmare... HN submission of that blog post for discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820615 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820615 ======== ADDED IN EDIT: Clearly this is contentious - it went up to two points, now as I write this it's down to zero, and who knows where it will go next. Yes, I agree, sometimes TechCrunch adds information, but I claim that in this case it doesn't. Further, I claim that by reading only the excerpts they include, you are not being given the whole picture as written by the blog author. The post is well-written and well-crafted - providing summary excerpts does not give the full impact or the full situation. And, given that the crunchy bits don't actually add anything, let me quote from http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html where it says: Please submit the original source. If a blog post reports on something they found on another site, submit the latter.

jamesgagan 15y ago
I disagree - people are always interested in TechCrunch's take on things. Indeed, AirBNB used it as their PR channel the other day ( http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/27/on-safety-a-word-from-airbnb/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/27/on-safety-a-word-from-airbn...) so linking to the TC article certainly has value.
- ColinWright 15y ago
  Agree to disagree - I'm content with that. In my opinion sometimes TC actually adds something, but this time it really doesn't.
dpritchett 15y ago
The real news here is "TechCrunch isn't sleeping on the AirBnB/EJ story", especially given that EJ's followup post is still on the front page. The important details are in the news cycle itself: 1) EJ post tops the HN front page 2) HuffPo-owned TechCrunch reblogs it 3) TC posts a defense from an AirBnB cofounder 4) EJ posts a "still no help from AirBnB" followup 5) TC reblogs that as well in an attempt to cover both sides of the story

JacobAldridge 15y ago

Worth noting that, despite recent large valuations and funding rounds, the founders of Airbnb are still driving their baby and have a massive emotional attachment to it. (As do all business owners.) This is their first significant black eye (the Craigslist stuff was far more limited in its audience reach), and has the potential to derail a company that's only 2 years old. Of course they're going to be responding emotionally, and unfortunately that means perhaps doing too much or doing the wrong thing (like suggesting to meet for coffee without asking how EJ is coping). Now, that emotional involvement with the business is considerably less than the emotion of coming home to discover your house has been ransacked, so I'm not trying to compare. I'm just observing that Airbnb's response (for better or worse) is not devoid of emotional triggers either. I do hope EJ is receiving the support she needs and am sure she will get through this. I similarly hope the ongoing support the Airbnb founders are receiving recognises the feelings element of running a large business through the prism of their emotional attachment.

Maro 15y ago
I donwvoted you. I don't see how what you write is relevant. Everybody is emotionally attached to their startups, including me, so?
- JacobAldridge 15y ago
  So ... I don't believe that level of emotional attachment is well understood by people who don't have their own business. There's criticism - in this thread and elsewhere - of how Airbnb have handled this whole situation, especially some of the information in the OP. I think there would be less criticism if more people understood the emotions of being a business owner - emotions lead us to do non-rational things. Edit: To add how good it was to see someone explain a downvote, so we could continue a discussion.
  - Maro 15y ago
    Yes, the emotional attachment that founders have with their startups is pretty crazy. I think that rational founders learn to normalize it over the years though, at least that's what happened to me. Criticism sucks, but with a company like Airbnb that's the deal, and the founders knew it from the get go. This is the price (one of many) they pay for their eventual big payday. Overall, it's a pretty good deal though =)

compnerd 15y ago

I'm starting to get the feeling that the Airbnb founders will do "whatever" it takes, to see their business succeed.

chubot 15y ago
Yeah, first the craigslist thing, now this. They seem unconcerned with "evil". I guess that's how businesses succeed in our system. I get the feeling that it's pretty chaotic over there. My first AirBNB experience was filled with crazy bugs (the messaging system, logins). It seems they're trying to get huge fast rather than taking the time to polish the experience.

BasDirks 15y ago

Acquaintances have said they'd probably not use Airbnb for fear of problems like this. After this incident and Airbnb's response, they will never even consider it. And they will tell all their acquaintances, etc, etc.. Airbnb's Achilles' heel is the deep-rooted fear of someone fucking up home. That they did not patch this with a good backup-plan should be a warning to investors.

nkassis 15y ago
"That they did not patch this with a good backup-plan should be a warning to investors." Yeah this is their biggest problem here they seem to have no crisis plan at all. Nothing.
sp332 15y ago
What backup plan can you have for someone destroying your house, copying all your documents, and stealing your grandmother's jewelery?
- BasDirks 15y ago
  Airbnb should have had a backup plan, not the victim. Note: i feel terrible for the Airbnb folks. I hope they get out of this mess.
- felipemnoa 15y ago
  They should be covered by some type of insurance so that they can compensate the owner or vice-versa. Things like this will happen and continue to happen.

nodata 15y ago

This is really crappy and airbnb fucked up big time, twice now. But... there's something odd about the way the victim writes, and I don't understand why it's jumping out at me: "bouncing between friends’ homes".. "clutching my pillow".. "breathing through panic attacks".. "scouring the city’s pawn shops".. "this too shall pass and I will be made whole again."

bignoggins 15y ago
She is just trying to convey her emotions. I think her style is appropriate for the situation.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
btheroux 15y ago
Pictures would be nice. Or a copy of the police report works as great proof.
- vnchr 15y ago
  It seems both of those could be interfering with the investigation. She made the point that she had not posted pictures as an example of cooperating with the process between AirBnB and the police.
VladRussian 15y ago
as one smart commenter http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820778 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820778 has finally got it (and as usually - once somebody was able to get it and explained to the rest of us, it seems obvious ) - PTSD
- hluska 15y ago
  I'm sorry, but I disagree with you (and upvoted that post). While post traumatic stress disorder is highly individualistic, one of the classic symptoms is a desire not to be reminded of the trauma (especially only five weeks after). Usually, at this point, a victim would be doing everything possible not to think of it. Granted, PTSD is highly individualistic, but if you read the relevant medical literature, this is not a classic case.

latch 15y ago

I was the main anti-AirBnB poster last time around...but.. I gotta say, something about all this now seems like it's a set up for a big fat lawsuit. I've never been violated this way (or anything close to it), so maybe I'm being insensitive, but this is crossing into whining territory to me. If you want to complain about a _really_ bad experience, a lack of customer support, and insensitive and money-focused founders, that's fine. But I don't really need to hear about your pillow-clutching and fading normalcy.

dasil003 15y ago
Well, if it's fraudulent that's one thing. But if the story is entirely true, then who really gives a fuck what you need to hear?
kilian 15y ago
You could use some empathy, my friend.

arepb 15y ago

I barely invite my friends over, why would I let a random into my house, even for $(amount)?

gwern 15y ago
Everyone generalizes from one example; at least, I know I do.

bprater 15y ago

I'm surprised the mainstream media hasn't picked this up. It has all the right plot points to drive a story -- over-the-top crime, police can't find the persons involved, the victim is striking back at the company who started the mess.

prof 15y ago
Did the company start the mess?

niekmaas 15y ago

How does this work legally? Is it still burglary when the people were allowed in the house? Of course taking things that do not below to you is theft. But going through someones documents, is that illegal?

pseudonym 15y ago
I'm pretty sure AirBnB is already pretty sketchy when it comes to legality, just from the fact that a lot of apartments explicitly disallow subletting. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a later follow-up saying that this lady is on the hook for any damage done to the apartment.
evilduck 15y ago
Not a lawyer and I don't know anything about San Francisco laws, but I'm a former police dispatcher and I've worked in the insurance industry. Burglary is usually just breaking and entering plus some other crime. Breaking (the legal term) doesn't actually require anything be literally broken to gain entry (i.e. theft or duplication of keys and lockpicking still qualify), and you can still "break" into rooms of a home you've been invited into in some jurisdictions; so if you were not explicitly permitted into an area and a reasonable attempt to prevent you from entering was made (closed door, locks, gates, etc), it's breaking. Not all jurisdictions require a theft to occur for burglary to have been committed, there's a multitude of crimes that might qualify: kidnapping, assault, battery, rape, arson, theft, vandalism, and others might all be valid secondary crimes that would create a burglary and some places don't even require that, the mere act of breaking and entering is sufficient. Going through someone's document may not be criminal, but copying the documents is probably criminal identity theft and that in tandem with them being in a locked away closet would probably add burglary to the charges even though the host had invited the guests into the house. From the original post's description of events, there'd still be felony vandalism and felony theft too, although if she actually reported to the police that she had essentially sublet her apartment through AirBnB, she's most certainly exempt from making insurance claims that would make her whole again.

sriramk 15y ago

If that AirBnb co-founder really asked her to tone down her post because it would mess with future financing, that's just sad. Talk about inappropriate timing and priorities

speckledjim 15y ago
It's all about money and greed. Sad indeedy.
- veyron 15y ago
  Airbnb is a business. And honestly their behavior is exactly what I would expect from them: dont admit any liability, offer words of consolement.
  - speckledjim 15y ago
    This isn't an isolated incident though. Their whole business model pretty much is built on the fact that things like this will happen. A lot.
    - veyron 15y ago
      Given that they control the communication, the implied business model is that trustworthy people will be using the service. If they truly expected these types of incidents to happen a lot, they would require more information from people (to be able to trace and hold visitors accountable) and have some sort of legalese to ensure that they would never be held liable.

markbao 15y ago

Wow. I love AirBnB, and I hate to say it, but that was a completely boneheaded move. There is absolutely no doubt that EJ is very public on this issue. If it's true that AirBnB tried to cover up the problem, then why? Did the founders think that EJ wouldn't turn around and say that they're asking her to remove the post? Handling this situation should be a top priority for AirBnB. There's the potential that the mainstream media could have a field day with this. The incident will undoubtedly be part of the hotel lobbyists' list of reasons AirBnB should be made illegal. And if the investigation reveals that they were cooking drugs in the place, that's even more damning. It's disappointing to see this happen to one of the most interesting startups as of late, and I hope they turn around their attitude for the better. This is already really damaging, but it could be way worse if things don't change.

watchandwait 15y ago
It isn't disappointing, it is predictable. AirBnB has skirted the rules from day one, when they launched by spamming Craiglist. AirBnB brokers a service that is illegal in many jurisdictions, and they go out of their way to mask the serious risks their users (both renters and owners) are taking. And when the obvious happens, their response is self-serving.
- singular 15y ago
  Actually that was apparently not sanctioned, rather the work of some contractors acting off their own back.[1] [1]:http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2815183 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2815183
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - adw 15y ago
      The founders hired the contractors. I don't think it's fair to call AirBnB spammers, and it's unreasonable to assume malice, but questions around oversight and transparency are reasonable ones to ask.

farrel 15y ago

AirBnB gives the illusion that you can just rent out your apartment without any precautions. I've stayed in a few dedicated holiday apartments and almost without fail: 1) They are furnished with the basics and that's it. No valuables and nothing that can not be easily replaced. 2) The owner or an employed managing agent interacted with us (either at the apartment or when we fetched the keys) when we arrived and left. 3) They had insurance in place and 80% of the time when I signed for the apartment I was also signing my own liability. If you are prepared to rent out a fully furnished (and in this case full of valuables) apartment to strangers you need to be prepared for the potential massive downside. 99% of your guests may be hassle free but it just takes that 1% to wipe out any financial upside and even then they may not even do it on purpose - accidents can and do happen.

hussong 15y ago
I'd say your last sentence applies to renting out any kind of apartment. Once you catch the occasional deadbeat tenant (not paying rent for months, damaging the floors etc.), your business case is FUBR.

beedogs 15y ago

Airbnb really needs to pull their head out of their ass on this one. This seems like it could literally destroy their company.

vessenes 15y ago

This is a seriously damning essay from someone who's clearly working through PTSD issues (or is an amazing liar). Part of the issue is that young fast-growth CEOs don't major on empathy, typically. It's somewhat contrary to the necessities of the job. These co-founders have absolutely no concept of how this woman feels, or if they do, they have determined that they won't let her know about it. The best thing say Paul Graham could do would be to hire them a crisis management coach, stat. While the co-founders are reportedly worrying a bit about valuation right now, they could (and should) be turning this into an amazing PR story; massively over-compensating her, setting up a Lloyds-based insurance coverage program, appearing on something like Oprah to talk over how it felt, and what we can all do as we're moving into this awesome social-based home sharing..

pseudonym 15y ago
>>or is an amazing liar I know that people were doubting the veracity of the story in the first place, but I think the initial AirBnB PR statement laid that to rest. At this point, what would EJ gain by lying? Anything that's a blatant lie could just be replied with by "Nope" by AirBnB, and she could only hurt her case by lying about anything right now. Honestly, after what appears to be a month with no help, no reply, no customer service, veiled threats, and an offer to "get a cup of coffee"...I'm honestly surprised this essay isn't more vitriolic.
- fab13n 15y ago
  (Disclaimer: I'm not saying that she's lying, and I see no element that makes me believe that she lies. I don't even see any concrete element pointing to a conspiracy, I'm merely pondering how credible it might be). > what would EJ gain by lying? AirBnB has the potential to become very disruptive for the whole hostel industry. This means that there are people, some of them with deep pockets, some of them less than honest, and some of them both, who really want them to fail. What's AirBnB's main challenge? It needs people to trust each other, in a society which promotes mistrust. The easiest way to destroy them is to prevent this trust from being created and maintained. If you wanted to destroy them in a shady way, your best bet would be to create a smear campaign based on a traumatizing violation, exactly such as what allegedly happened to this woman. Moreover, if you were to create such a smear campaign, your best bet wouldn't be to have an accomplice playing the victim: it would be to choose a perfect genuine victim (likable, vocal, blogging, emotionally sensitive, and with good writing skills), and send real thugs actually destroy her home in the most traumatizing way, including psychopathic "nice" e-mails sent while wrecking the place havoc.

sixty 15y ago

airbnb need to realise this will not go away. The way I see it, their two main options are: 1) hire a PR firm, lawyer up and let the spin doctors handle things. With the amount of money they have, this is a real option. They could probably convince or coerce (bully?) the victim into accepting a settlement in exchange for keeping quiet. The PR machine would then be free to write (or rewrite) the story as they see fit. 2) Come clean. Realise that it's never the victim's fault. Compensate her financially for her loss. Offer to provide counselling. Help her with the logistics of finding and moving to a new place. Work with the victim (and other airbnb users) to figure out how to reduce the chances of this happening again. And all the while, document everything. Brian C speaks of openness and transparency - show us, don't tell us.

rrrazdan 15y ago
Not a reflection on Brian, ( I know nothing about him) but it is my observation that 'talking' about openness and transparency is easy. Implementing it in a competitive environment is difficult.

cageface 15y ago

This is bad enough but what happens when the inevitable assault, rape or murder finally occurs? Screening people is a chicken & egg problem because if you only rent to people with a ton of positive history nobody new gets in. The only solution I can see is digging way deeper into the personal background of a prospective tenant than any hotel would dare.

ISeemToBeAVerb 15y ago

This is one of those sad instances where you see a really great company forget their roots and give their soul wholeheartedly to the idea of becoming huge. This was going to happen eventually. In fact, this issue is the biggest chink in the chain of the whole collaborative consumption ideal. The idea of social sharing is amazing, but the companies working in this space should know that eventually someone would come along and exploit the system for nefarious purposes. It's great that some of these companies are getting funding to grow, but did no one think that this was a possibility? Did no one think this could happen? I love the idea of AirBnB, but they need to understand that they have a responsibility to their community that far surpasses their responsibility to any funding they receive.

preavy 15y ago

The story is on the front page of this morning's Financial Times (UK edition): http://www.politicshome.com/timthumb.php?w=450&src=%2Fimages%2F%2F1.1.Front_Pages%2Fft_29711.png http://www.politicshome.com/timthumb.php?w=450&src=%2Fim... Story here: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9aac5f80-b924-11e0-bd87-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1TJLQ6rSb http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9aac5f80-b924-11e0-bd87-00144feabd...

TeMPOraL 15y ago
That's the old story. They haven't seen yet the newest post. When they will have, all hell will break loose for AirBNB.

yardie 15y ago

Airbnb is one of the good ideas that came out of the SF/SV area that wasn't really means tested and a cock-up like this was bound to occur. It places an incredible amount of trust in the hosts and guests. This is alright I guess for some places but definitely not others. I assume that if Airbnb got its start in Detroit, for example, and not San Francisco then safety and security would have a different context. For me, when I was in university I left the door to my apartment unlocked, a lot. I knew everyone in our building and had so many people coming and going from my place that it was easier that way. Plus, being a broke college student the most expensive thing in the apartment was the bottles of liquor :-). But this is definitely not something I would do in any other city. EJ assumed that keeping valuables in a locked closet would be enough. Severely overestimating the role a locked closet plays in a house. Being a traveller myself I am constantly worried about the security of my house. Renting it out to a stranger with my valuables still inside would drive me nuts. I like the idea of airbnb but I haven't used them because they don't have listings for the places I go. And the thought of having to move all the expensive stuff out of my place, pay for storage, and move it back when I arrive is a bigger hassle than I can deal with.

braindead_in 15y ago

I wonder how CouchSurfing managed such issues. I am sure it must have happened with CouchSurfing too. I know that they have ratings for members and past history. I guess you can get an impression of the trustworthiness. But then this sort of thing can happen too.

kyleslattery 15y ago
The thing with CouchSurfing is that the guest is not generally alone in the apartment--it's a more social interaction, where the host is entertaining you, showing you around, etc. In Airbnb's case, the guest is left alone in the apartment, and there isn't as much interaction between the host and guest.

ig1 15y ago

Try googling for "craigslist murder" or "gumtree stabbing", crimes happen. The classified industry is still alive. Foursquare and Twitter stalking didn't kill either of those products. The London Metropolitan police typically deal with 50-100 crimes related to online classified ads a year. People are incredibly poor at judging risks so things like this get blown out of proportion. You need to look at the context and compare against other risks. For example what's the risk of your house get burgled if you go on holiday and leave it empty for a few weeks ?

deleted 15y ago

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brianchesky 15y ago

Brian Chesky (Airbnb CEO) here. My heart goes out to our host. My co-founder has contacted her multiple times, as recently as last night, and we have again offered to help her in any way that she needs. We will continue to make ourselves available to her to do whatever she asks of us in this time of need. We have encouraged her to reach us so that we can help her through this, and we are standing by.

JoachimSchipper 15y ago

This should not be [dead] (and please don't downvote me because you disagree with him; on the other hand, perhaps someone should tell him): "brianchesky 3 minutes ago [dead] Brian Chesky (Airbnb CEO) here. My heart goes out to our host. My co-founder has contacted her multiple times, as recently as last night, and we have again offered to help her in any way that she needs. We will continue to make ourselves available to her to do whatever she asks of us in this time of need. We have encouraged her to reach us so that we can help her through this, and we are standing by."

sp332 15y ago
It's dead because he copy&pasted the exact same text on the other thread. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2821305 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2821305

blackiron 15y ago

Some strange things to note about this case: - she rants about airbnb, but not so much about the thieves.. in those Ebay scam cases the victim usually directs his/her anger and takes action toward the scammer, not towards ebay. She reports very little about the thieves and the progress of the police investigation. - Are these psychotic rockstar thieves so expert at hiding their identity? its a very 'proffesional' job then.. which can raise more points to the hotel lobby conspiracy theory. - I thought that you use airbnb to rent extra properties; not your home with your documents, jewels, money, personal diary and what not in there.

awa 15y ago
Regarding - I thought that you use airbnb to rent extra properties; not your home with your documents, jewels, money, personal diary and what not in there. Nope. You use vrbo or an external agency for your extra property. You use airbnb for renting the extra room in the house or a week you're away from your place. That's how airbnb spins it and that's how most places are listed on the site

ck2 15y ago

If you care for the reaction from someone who doesn't really know/understand what Airbnb is: "Who lets strangers into their home, unsupervised?" Does make some sense, right? Who would?

Osiris 15y ago
I have never used the service, but I always assumed that they pre-screened the customers and the hosts. I'm really surprised to hear that they don't have a screening process, like background checks, and that they don't carry some for on insurance to cover damages. They certainly don't seem to make the effort to inform hosts of those two points. Hosts should be completely aware that AirBnB, 1) does NO background checks or verifications on possible tenants, and 2) does NOT insure any damages.
- ck2 15y ago
  TSA and cops are both screened before they are hired, doesn't prevent the horror stories. How do you know the people who do the screening actually do anything? What's their "skin in the game"?
- Jilly 15y ago
  If people are unable to read the TOS, which states Airbnb does no background checks not sure how it's Airbnb's fault when something goes amiss. They do not vet either the hosts or the renters. Either party could be throwing major shade and basically if you're a person devoid of common sense and good judgment the services provided by Airbnb probably aren't for you. Personally, I could not use either because my HOA expressly forbids short term leases for the reasons driven home by this incident.

Maro 15y ago

This reminds me of Paypal, where the founders said they won the online payments game because they figured out how to deal with fraud. Maybe that's one of the keys to success here, figuring out how to deal with these cases at the business plan level.

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ivankirigin 15y ago

Can we all admit that techcrunch gets page views by spreading FUD? Read original sources for this case

int3rnaut 15y ago

I don't know why but on top of feeling bad for this woman, I feel bad for the AirBnB guys because the whole concept is so idealistic and believes in the good in people--if only everyone represented humanity the way they envisioned this from the birth of their idea; that would truly be a good world.

rdouble 15y ago

This is a ridiculous article. Instead of just quoting an anonymous blog post, TechCrunch could be calling AirBNB, calling the victim, digging up the police report, locating the relevant profiles on AirBNB, and so on, and so forth. They have the resources, they could contributing to the understanding of this event, rather than just spreading FUD. There is no journalism present whatsoever, it is pure spin.

Maxious 15y ago
TechCrunch and FT are reporting on this but EJ's latest post says "2. Other than occasionally sharing the link to my blog, I have made no statements to nor have I been interviewed by the press - yet." I'm sure the FT must have a code of conduct around victims of crime (see the BBC one @ http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/page/guidelines-crime-witnesses-victims/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/page/gui...) to ensure they don't complicate matters but surely they could have tried to contact EJ to confirm what they were going to print was correct.
Jilly 15y ago
Exactly. And if she's not the homeowner where is the actual homeowner in all of this?

stef25 15y ago

As much as this sucks for EJ, she is being quite the crybaby. This has nothing to do with AirBnB and everything to do with the fact she handed over the keys to her personal flat (containing many expensive items and personal documents) to a complete stranger. The medium through which this stranger found you, be it a pinboard at a supermarket, craiglist, airbnb or through a foaf, is irrelevant. Initially AirBnB may have been populated with California Apple fan boys (you can trust), but it's just a matter of time before Joe six-pack (who you maybe can't trust so much) gets on there. If you rent out your place through AirBnB it should be YOUR responsibility to vet the person and / or make sure there is little to steal / destroy. This isn't the responsibility of the founders of AirBnB.

tygorius 15y ago
This has nothing to do with AirBnB Yes, so far as we know, the persons who robbed and trashed EJ's home were not employees of AirBnB. In just about every other respect, however, this has everything to do with AirBnB. Four big points that have struck me: * From a business perpective, such incidents were inevitable and yet the company seems to have had no crisis management plan in place. That is simply astounding. * From a consumer perspective, it's worth warning potential users of the service that the company's prior attitude was "Don't worry, no one will steal your grand piano". As EJ points out, if AirBnB's "service" offers no more protection and fewer warnings than a free Craigslist alternative, you may want to reconsider using them. * Given that some small percentage of renters are intent on breaking through your locked doors and storage cabinets looking for valuables, you might just want to reconsider renting your home out to people you don't personally know and trust. At the very least, a viewing of "Pacific Heights" is in order. (A landlord acquaintence suggested the film be required viewing for anyone who is considering becoming a landlord.) This might not seem AirBnB-relevant at first, but when you consider AirBnB's facile "grand piano" Web page, it seems quite relevant. * Imagine if EJ had gotten suspicious and decided to check up on the renters herself or asked a friend to do it for her. Scenarios escalating to rape and/or murder are not farfetched. Even if you can ignore the pain and suffering of the victims, imagine what a PR disaster that would have been for AirBnB. (Which brings us back to the first point.)

dreamdu5t 15y ago

If this was bound to happen, I wonder why AirBnB didn't have a better contingency plan.

shawnee_ 15y ago

The headline is a bit too much, even for TechCrunch. EJ is not "homeless". She almost certainly has never been homeless and will never be homeless; this is an insult to people who have been homeless, broke, and literally have nowhere to go. Choosing to not stay in a $3.8K / month loft in SF does not a homeless person make. And she's at least a bit responsible for feeding the sensationalism of this; it is coming off a bit Drama Queen.

jgmmo 15y ago
Her nickname is EJ, and she is indeed homeless. Her home was destroyed and ever since she has been bouncing around staying with friends. She is now without a home - that doesn't mean she is sleeping in the subway station, but it does mean she doesn't have a permanent residence anymore. Hence, homeless.

mxavier 15y ago

A little OT from the actual story but I find it annoying when TechCrunch and similar sites find a random picture to put near the headline. I suppose the point of this is to attract more eyes to the article, but when the story is about someone getting their home trashed and you show some completely different house that looks like a bulldozer drove through it, I can't help but think you're creating an association that is a best worthless and at worst misleading. Pictures in articles serve a purpose and that purpose certainly isn't to remind me what a trashed house is.

iamdave 15y ago

I'm a little less worried about what the MSM will do here (editorialize and paint the hotel industry, as some other HNers have said as golden boys), I'm actually curious to see how someone up on Capitol Hill is going to react to this.

hootmon 15y ago

Stupid is as stupid does. AirBnB sells 'free lunch' to the gullible, who QQ like mad when they get what they paid for. The short attention span generation is so pwned.

Jilly 15y ago

I'm sorry, but very little of this story rings true for me. "EJ" reminds me of a roommate I had in college who was a serious drama queen. If she felt wronged by you there was no remedy short of spending every moment lavishing her attention and apologizes (and who has time for that?) that would appease here and it was never enough. I don't doubt AirBnB offered assistance and "EJ" herself said so. However, with a drama queen it is never about finite forms of attention (money, vindication, etc) but renewable sources where she is able to maintain victimhood without taking a shred of responsibility for her part (no matter how small) in the events that are alleged to have unfolded. I mean what kind of drama queen psycho ex carries on about a CEO wanting to meet her for coffee, but not asking about her feelings? What are they dating or something? Nobody cares about her "feelings" feelings are transient and not fact. What they want is to solve the problem and since they are men, they're having some real problems understanding what a losing game they're playing when the opposing side is a drama queen.