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They could have got US civilians and allies out first - there is no reason it had to happen this way.

by miked85 5y ago

x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
Everyone knew we were leaving, Trump set the date. Why folks were still hanging around I'll never know.
- miked85 5y ago
  Trump set a date; that date came and went. Besides, Biden has rescinded dozens of Trump policies, his hands were hardly tied on this.
jjoonathan 5y ago
Yes, there is. People want to believe that orderly evacuation is merely a function of planning. It isn't. * Diplomats -- needed to show support for the government we put in place until it fell. It was always going to fall, so there was always going to be a scramble to get them out. This dynamic has happened before and it will happen again. It's a function of diplomacy, not planning. * Afghani Allies -- we have to draw the line somewhere at who we evacuate, the line was always going to leave some people out who thought they should be evacuated, and that was always going to be a tragedy. The tragedy is a function of line drawing, not planning. * Equipment -- we left equipment for the Afghani government. We could have taken it or destroyed it, but that would have been a vote of no confidence in the government we notionally supported, so diplomacy says we leave it and the taliban gets it. Again a function of diplomacy, not planning. If you try to throw planning and resources at problems that are actually fundamental, what happens is that you announce a troop surge and then 8 years later your presidency is over and you are no closer to leaving Afghanistan.
- watwut 5y ago
  > we have to draw the line somewhere at who we evacuate, the line was always going to leave some people out who thought they should be evacuated, and that was always going to be a tragedy. The tragedy is a function of line drawing, not planning. The complain is that current line is roughly "no one". And the people there had not had even time to prepare, organize hiding places or run away.
NonContro 5y ago
And take them where? How many Afghans nationals were on the US payroll? Its not our responsibility to take them all into the USA or elsewhere where they can represent a continued burden to those societies, and the ranks of collaborators in Afghanistan were repeatedly infiltrated by Taliban operatives. How many of them will sneak through to the West and cause terror if we let them? Collaborating with America should not come with a promise of a Green Card. It sets up conflicting motivations - if the 'nation building' fails, the collaborators can bug out to a much better country anyway.

They could have got US civilians and allies out first - there is no reason it had to happen this way.

x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago

Everyone knew we were leaving, Trump set the date. Why folks were still hanging around I'll never know.

miked85 5y ago
Trump set a date; that date came and went. Besides, Biden has rescinded dozens of Trump policies, his hands were hardly tied on this.

jjoonathan 5y ago

Yes, there is. People want to believe that orderly evacuation is merely a function of planning. It isn't. * Diplomats -- needed to show support for the government we put in place until it fell. It was always going to fall, so there was always going to be a scramble to get them out. This dynamic has happened before and it will happen again. It's a function of diplomacy, not planning. * Afghani Allies -- we have to draw the line somewhere at who we evacuate, the line was always going to leave some people out who thought they should be evacuated, and that was always going to be a tragedy. The tragedy is a function of line drawing, not planning. * Equipment -- we left equipment for the Afghani government. We could have taken it or destroyed it, but that would have been a vote of no confidence in the government we notionally supported, so diplomacy says we leave it and the taliban gets it. Again a function of diplomacy, not planning. If you try to throw planning and resources at problems that are actually fundamental, what happens is that you announce a troop surge and then 8 years later your presidency is over and you are no closer to leaving Afghanistan.

watwut 5y ago
> we have to draw the line somewhere at who we evacuate, the line was always going to leave some people out who thought they should be evacuated, and that was always going to be a tragedy. The tragedy is a function of line drawing, not planning. The complain is that current line is roughly "no one". And the people there had not had even time to prepare, organize hiding places or run away.

NonContro 5y ago

And take them where? How many Afghans nationals were on the US payroll? Its not our responsibility to take them all into the USA or elsewhere where they can represent a continued burden to those societies, and the ranks of collaborators in Afghanistan were repeatedly infiltrated by Taliban operatives. How many of them will sneak through to the West and cause terror if we let them? Collaborating with America should not come with a promise of a Green Card. It sets up conflicting motivations - if the 'nation building' fails, the collaborators can bug out to a much better country anyway.