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Since California has a reputation for it's high taxes on almost everything, I was surprised to learn their State budget is pretty average on a per capita basis

Since California has a reputation for it's high taxes on almost everything, I was surprised to learn their State budget is pretty average on a per capita basis [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets

whoisburbansky 5y ago
Could it be that CA receives less in federal aid per capita than the average state
- akhosravian 5y ago
  I think its more likely that the state's rules on increasing property taxes hamstrung its ability to raise revenue through the increasing property values in the state. Instead they make up the difference through other means of taxation.
  - bingohbangoh 5y ago
    Aren’t property taxes only paid to local municipalities? Pretty sure it’s that way in NJ at any rate
    - asdff 5y ago
      It's complicated in CA. Yes, they stay local in the county and are meant to fund education. The caveat is that due to proposition 13 property taxes no longer are able to fund education completely and the state has to step in to cover the gap, so property taxes have a large impact on the state budget. https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2012/tax/property-tax-primer-112912.aspx https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2012/tax/property-tax-primer-1129...
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Those who work are subsidizing those who own property.
    - xibalba 5y ago
      Those are not mutually exclusive sets. In fact, one is pretty close to a subset of the the other.
      - closeparen 5y ago
        I invite you to try attaining home equity in California through labor. Vanishingly few people in the highest reaches of the state's most lucrative industry are able to do that. These prices aren't made out of saved-up paychecks. Not even for white collar jobs. They are wealth. A group of people who were in the right place at the right time, trading amongst themselves. When an uppity little worker somehow makes enough to break into their club, they take it as a reminder about how that pesky income inequality really needs fixing. Turn up the taxes on wages until he goes away. But no more taxes on our ownership. That's out of the question.
        xibalba 5y ago
        The data do not agree with you. 55% of housing units are owned by their occupant in California[1]. That statistic is trending up. There are estimated to be 13.3 million housing units in California[2]. This means 7.3 million of those units are owned by their occupant(s). The adult population (>=18yo) of California is estimated to be 24.9 million[3]. So if we assume all 7.3 million owner occupied housing units have a single owner-occupant, this would mean that approximately 29% of adult Californians own their residence. This, of course, is an underestimate because many homes are owned by more than one occupant (i.e. families). Thus, at a minimum, 1/3rd of Californians are "attaining equity through labor". Are you telling me all of these people are the moneyed, flying-over-everything capital class? Please fact check your defeatist attitude and consider widening your gaze as to the opportunities available to you. There is no free lunch. Sacrifices and compromises must be made to achieve your goals. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CAHOWN https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CAHOWN [2] https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs/data/interactive/ahstablecreator.html?s_areas=00006&s_year=2019&s_tablename=TABLE1&s_bygroup1=1&s_bygroup2=1&s_filtergroup1=1&s_filtergroup2=1 https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs/data/interactive... [3] https://censusreporter.org/profiles/04000US06-california/ https://censusreporter.org/profiles/04000US06-california/
irjustin 5y ago
I'm surprised North Dakota is top of the per capita list. A few others are very high, Alaska, Wyoming? Is it industry taxes? Another method of income?
- pxeboot 5y ago
  Likely oil and gas taxes for those states.
- panzagl 5y ago
  A combination of very few people and high tax income from oil companies- Alaska even pays part of the oil company licenses back to residents.
jdavis703 5y ago
It turns out California doesn’t really have that high of taxes. States like NY, NJ and MD have higher tax burdens.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I would expect the states with the highest debt per taxpayer to have the highest taxes, especially if you are in the top 40% of income: https://www.truthinaccounting.org/news/detail/financial-state-of-the-states-2020 https://www.truthinaccounting.org/news/detail/financial-stat... The extreme outliers are CT/IL/NJ.
  - xyzzy21 5y ago
    Depends on how you measure "debt". If you include cities that are essentially bankrupt in CA, it's very high. Most CA cities are unviable financially.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
California ranks 8th when state and local taxes are taken into account https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/rankings-state-and-local-capita-general-revenue https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/rankings-state-an...
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  It is pretty useless to have a single ranking for tax rates when people of various incomes have various tax rates. This report gives a better idea for an individual’s tax rate based on income, although it does not take into account personal circumstances due to prop 13 in CA: https://itep.org/whopays-map/ https://itep.org/whopays-map/
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I think both are relevant. States have many differences and more or less progressive structures, but average revenue/spend tells an important part of the story. If a state (e.g. California) is collecting and spending 50% than average on a per capita basis, it begs the question of what that money is spent on, and if there are diminishing returns in value.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
It depends what income band you are in (and what type of income you have): https://itep.org/whopays-map/ https://itep.org/whopays-map/ And specifically for CA, what land you have passed down to you so you can benefit from prop 13.
csomar 5y ago
That's the state budget which can be financed by resources (ie: oil), loans or federal aid. The budget for Qatar is certainly not 0 because they have no income/capital/sales taxes.

whoisburbansky 5y ago

Could it be that CA receives less in federal aid per capita than the average state

akhosravian 5y ago
I think its more likely that the state's rules on increasing property taxes hamstrung its ability to raise revenue through the increasing property values in the state. Instead they make up the difference through other means of taxation.
- bingohbangoh 5y ago
  Aren’t property taxes only paid to local municipalities? Pretty sure it’s that way in NJ at any rate
  - asdff 5y ago
    It's complicated in CA. Yes, they stay local in the county and are meant to fund education. The caveat is that due to proposition 13 property taxes no longer are able to fund education completely and the state has to step in to cover the gap, so property taxes have a large impact on the state budget. https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2012/tax/property-tax-primer-112912.aspx https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2012/tax/property-tax-primer-1129...
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Those who work are subsidizing those who own property.
  - xibalba 5y ago
    Those are not mutually exclusive sets. In fact, one is pretty close to a subset of the the other.
    - closeparen 5y ago
      I invite you to try attaining home equity in California through labor. Vanishingly few people in the highest reaches of the state's most lucrative industry are able to do that. These prices aren't made out of saved-up paychecks. Not even for white collar jobs. They are wealth. A group of people who were in the right place at the right time, trading amongst themselves. When an uppity little worker somehow makes enough to break into their club, they take it as a reminder about how that pesky income inequality really needs fixing. Turn up the taxes on wages until he goes away. But no more taxes on our ownership. That's out of the question.
      - xibalba 5y ago
        The data do not agree with you. 55% of housing units are owned by their occupant in California[1]. That statistic is trending up. There are estimated to be 13.3 million housing units in California[2]. This means 7.3 million of those units are owned by their occupant(s). The adult population (>=18yo) of California is estimated to be 24.9 million[3]. So if we assume all 7.3 million owner occupied housing units have a single owner-occupant, this would mean that approximately 29% of adult Californians own their residence. This, of course, is an underestimate because many homes are owned by more than one occupant (i.e. families). Thus, at a minimum, 1/3rd of Californians are "attaining equity through labor". Are you telling me all of these people are the moneyed, flying-over-everything capital class? Please fact check your defeatist attitude and consider widening your gaze as to the opportunities available to you. There is no free lunch. Sacrifices and compromises must be made to achieve your goals. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CAHOWN https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CAHOWN [2] https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs/data/interactive/ahstablecreator.html?s_areas=00006&s_year=2019&s_tablename=TABLE1&s_bygroup1=1&s_bygroup2=1&s_filtergroup1=1&s_filtergroup2=1 https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs/data/interactive... [3] https://censusreporter.org/profiles/04000US06-california/ https://censusreporter.org/profiles/04000US06-california/

irjustin 5y ago

I'm surprised North Dakota is top of the per capita list. A few others are very high, Alaska, Wyoming? Is it industry taxes? Another method of income?

pxeboot 5y ago
Likely oil and gas taxes for those states.
panzagl 5y ago
A combination of very few people and high tax income from oil companies- Alaska even pays part of the oil company licenses back to residents.

jdavis703 5y ago

It turns out California doesn’t really have that high of taxes. States like NY, NJ and MD have higher tax burdens.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
lotsofpulp 5y ago
I would expect the states with the highest debt per taxpayer to have the highest taxes, especially if you are in the top 40% of income: https://www.truthinaccounting.org/news/detail/financial-state-of-the-states-2020 https://www.truthinaccounting.org/news/detail/financial-stat... The extreme outliers are CT/IL/NJ.
- xyzzy21 5y ago
  Depends on how you measure "debt". If you include cities that are essentially bankrupt in CA, it's very high. Most CA cities are unviable financially.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

California ranks 8th when state and local taxes are taken into account https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/rankings-state-and-local-capita-general-revenue https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/rankings-state-an...

lotsofpulp 5y ago
It is pretty useless to have a single ranking for tax rates when people of various incomes have various tax rates. This report gives a better idea for an individual’s tax rate based on income, although it does not take into account personal circumstances due to prop 13 in CA: https://itep.org/whopays-map/ https://itep.org/whopays-map/
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  I think both are relevant. States have many differences and more or less progressive structures, but average revenue/spend tells an important part of the story. If a state (e.g. California) is collecting and spending 50% than average on a per capita basis, it begs the question of what that money is spent on, and if there are diminishing returns in value.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

It depends what income band you are in (and what type of income you have): https://itep.org/whopays-map/ https://itep.org/whopays-map/ And specifically for CA, what land you have passed down to you so you can benefit from prop 13.

csomar 5y ago

That's the state budget which can be financed by resources (ie: oil), loans or federal aid. The budget for Qatar is certainly not 0 because they have no income/capital/sales taxes.