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Climate change will destabilize the world more than any "terrorists" could. Also would've been nice to have seen 6.4 trillion go into renewables tech and inves

Climate change will destabilize the world more than any "terrorists" could. Also would've been nice to have seen 6.4 trillion go into renewables tech and investments ~ 20 years ago.

epistasis 5y ago
$6.4T into renewables and storage over the past 20 years would have decarbonized the US grid several time over, accelerated the tech curve drastically, nearly completely transitioned us to EVs, and we'd probably have decarbonized a good chunk of industry that is hard to decarbonize now. We'd have cheaper energy than we do today, and cheaper energy forever. We could have been looking at current levels of climate change, instead of the far far bigger changes that we are now going to experience. And why did we spend so much on these countries? It all comes back to oil and the fear of losing access to oil to power the economy. We really should never forgive those who work for the fossil fuel industry for putting us on this timeline with their active deceipt, lies, and massive propaganda campaign. There should be no forgiveness for what they have cost us.
- bamboozled 5y ago
  Absolutely, it's a good reminder that there is a lot of behind the scenes bullshit at play in this world. The world was screwed on this deal and while it's an absolutely humanitarian rights disaster and tragedy what's happening in Afghanistan, maybe the current Administration has worked out that it would be better to spend the money elsewhere, hopefully on tackling climate change.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  What evidence do you have that Afghanistan was due to oil, and not due to the most direct motivations, like Taliban sheltering Al Qaeda (as they still do)? This seems like a conspiracy theory.
  - swader999 5y ago
    If you want to go there look at the acres of cultivation of opium under Taliban and then under US occupation. Ask where that exponential increase in production was spent.
    - gruez 5y ago
      What does opium have to do with oil?
      - epistasis 5y ago
        I don't think opium has much to do with the initial invasion of Afghanistan, but I think that there's a pretty good argument that it has had a big effect on what has played out during the occupation. So I'm not fully sure of the relevance of the comment either.
        swader999 5y ago
        The conspiracy theory is that much of the increased opium production funded a lot of CIA black programs.
  - pizza 5y ago
    > Taleban in Texas for talks on gas pipeline (1997) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmenistan%E2%80%93Afghanistan%E2%80%93Pakistan%E2%80%93India_Pipeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmenistan%E2%80%93Afghanist...
  - epistasis 5y ago
    The purpose of invading Afghanistan was to enact revenge for the September 11th attacks. The reasons for the attacks that directly relate to the US are: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11... * US support for Israel (specifically Lebanon) -- support that the US gives as a strategic ally in the oil-rich Middle East. Without oil in the region, we would not be expending as much effort on this support. * US troops in Saudi Arabia -- troops are there because of the oil * Sanctions against Iraq -- placed there again because of oil and the annexation of Kuwait over oil.
- pedalpete 5y ago
  I wish I were able to take this a step further and postulate the benefit cheap renewable energies would have on countries like Afghanistan. Anybody have a good summary of what we would expect? I'm making the assumption it would be a net positive for the region.
exclipy 5y ago
To put this amount in perspective, $6,400 billion is 640 times the amount Jeff Bezos is putting into solving climate change. Wow.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Health care. Food stability. Road repair. Energy grid repair. Public transport. Education. We could have done so much more with that money. It is heartbreaking.
asdff 5y ago
We were literally a couple hundred votes from Gore 20 years ago. How different our world would have been today with a climate focused presidency two decades ago. 9/11 would have probably came and went without fanfare like most terrorist attacks, much less spurred invasion of two countries.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  9/11 really wasn't the sort of thing that passes without getting any "fanfare".
kwere 5y ago
boomers would have preferred tax cuts

Climate change will destabilize the world more than any "terrorists" could. Also would've been nice to have seen 6.4 trillion go into renewables tech and investments ~ 20 years ago.

epistasis 5y ago

$6.4T into renewables and storage over the past 20 years would have decarbonized the US grid several time over, accelerated the tech curve drastically, nearly completely transitioned us to EVs, and we'd probably have decarbonized a good chunk of industry that is hard to decarbonize now. We'd have cheaper energy than we do today, and cheaper energy forever. We could have been looking at current levels of climate change, instead of the far far bigger changes that we are now going to experience. And why did we spend so much on these countries? It all comes back to oil and the fear of losing access to oil to power the economy. We really should never forgive those who work for the fossil fuel industry for putting us on this timeline with their active deceipt, lies, and massive propaganda campaign. There should be no forgiveness for what they have cost us.

bamboozled 5y ago
Absolutely, it's a good reminder that there is a lot of behind the scenes bullshit at play in this world. The world was screwed on this deal and while it's an absolutely humanitarian rights disaster and tragedy what's happening in Afghanistan, maybe the current Administration has worked out that it would be better to spend the money elsewhere, hopefully on tackling climate change.
throwawaysea 5y ago
What evidence do you have that Afghanistan was due to oil, and not due to the most direct motivations, like Taliban sheltering Al Qaeda (as they still do)? This seems like a conspiracy theory.
- swader999 5y ago
  If you want to go there look at the acres of cultivation of opium under Taliban and then under US occupation. Ask where that exponential increase in production was spent.
  - gruez 5y ago
    What does opium have to do with oil?
    - epistasis 5y ago
      I don't think opium has much to do with the initial invasion of Afghanistan, but I think that there's a pretty good argument that it has had a big effect on what has played out during the occupation. So I'm not fully sure of the relevance of the comment either.
      - swader999 5y ago
        The conspiracy theory is that much of the increased opium production funded a lot of CIA black programs.
- pizza 5y ago
  > Taleban in Texas for talks on gas pipeline (1997) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmenistan%E2%80%93Afghanistan%E2%80%93Pakistan%E2%80%93India_Pipeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmenistan%E2%80%93Afghanist...
- epistasis 5y ago
  The purpose of invading Afghanistan was to enact revenge for the September 11th attacks. The reasons for the attacks that directly relate to the US are: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11... * US support for Israel (specifically Lebanon) -- support that the US gives as a strategic ally in the oil-rich Middle East. Without oil in the region, we would not be expending as much effort on this support. * US troops in Saudi Arabia -- troops are there because of the oil * Sanctions against Iraq -- placed there again because of oil and the annexation of Kuwait over oil.
pedalpete 5y ago
I wish I were able to take this a step further and postulate the benefit cheap renewable energies would have on countries like Afghanistan. Anybody have a good summary of what we would expect? I'm making the assumption it would be a net positive for the region.

exclipy 5y ago

To put this amount in perspective, $6,400 billion is 640 times the amount Jeff Bezos is putting into solving climate change. Wow.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Health care. Food stability. Road repair. Energy grid repair. Public transport. Education. We could have done so much more with that money. It is heartbreaking.

asdff 5y ago

We were literally a couple hundred votes from Gore 20 years ago. How different our world would have been today with a climate focused presidency two decades ago. 9/11 would have probably came and went without fanfare like most terrorist attacks, much less spurred invasion of two countries.

fennecfoxen 5y ago
9/11 really wasn't the sort of thing that passes without getting any "fanfare".

kwere 5y ago

boomers would have preferred tax cuts