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Discretionary income for a lot of families is — functionally — zero. The result is that any sort of financial issue becomes a devastating (possibly lifelong) bu

Discretionary income for a lot of families is — functionally — zero. The result is that any sort of financial issue becomes a devastating (possibly lifelong) burden. Most of these issues are single-occurrence and probably fall in the 200–500$ range. A 1000$ a year UBI would be life-changing for them. And by "them" I mean, like, 50% of the country. I'm in Texas, and the maximum amount of cash assistance possible — married parents, multiple kids, demonstrated need, is something like 83$ a month; I think, once?

lucb1e 5y ago
> the maximum amount of cash assistance possible — married parents, multiple kids, demonstrated need, is something like 83$ a month; I think, once? Huh, but, then you basically die. You can't live with kids on $83 monthly, let alone one-time. Surely there's something else if you don't have a job?
- Spooky23 5y ago
  That’s just cash benefits. Men and married couples by design don’t get most benefits. Most safety net assistance isn’t in cash. There’s a stigma associated with the cash handouts — people typically seek food, health and rent assistance.
jandrewrogers 5y ago
Per the US BLS and Federal Reserve, the median discretionary household income is $1000 per month. That is after all ordinary expenses, not just necessary ones. There is a significant percentage of the US that has no discretionary income in any meaningful sense, and that is something we should be concerned about, but it is nowhere near 50%.
nostrademons 5y ago
Assuming prices of necessities don't rise to capture that UBI. Which is a very real concern; when all your potential customers have an extra $1000/year, you raise your prices by $1000/year and suddenly you have $(1000 * # customers) extra per year and they're back where they started. To really fix poverty, you need to address shortages, particularly ones in basic necessities. If there's a housing unit available for everyone, landlords will have no leverage to raise rents. If there's a preschool for every kid, the cost of childcare won't go up. If there's a doctor (really a health insurer - the issue is monopolization of the customer channel) for everyone and you can switch easily, the cost of healthcare won't go up. If you give money to people and don't fix the underlying shortages, the price just adjusts to capture that money.
- cma 5y ago
  Isn't this assuming competion doesn't exist? For a fixed pool of rare trading cards or something this logic may hold though.
  - nostrademons 5y ago
    Yes, it's assuming competition doesn't exist, or that competitors are few enough in number that they can collude to not undercut each other. An increasing number of necessities are reaching that state, though. The U.S. has about 5 big health insurers, and in a given region you might only have a realistic choice between 2-3 of them. Many regions have only one broadband Internet provider, and one electric/gas/water/sewer/garbage utility. Childcare and housing are competitive, but with an undersupply that's gotten significantly worse during the pandemic. My county closed 75% of its registered daycares during lockdown; fortunately births plummeted and some are coming back, but there've already been pretty significant price increases. A lot of small-time landlords were forced out of the market by eviction moratoriums, so expect even more corporate-owned apartment complexes. Fix the competition issue and I'm all for UBI, but if you just institute UBI without fixing zoning and antitrust and regulatory capture it's just going to enrich a small class of people.

lucb1e 5y ago

> the maximum amount of cash assistance possible — married parents, multiple kids, demonstrated need, is something like 83$ a month; I think, once? Huh, but, then you basically die. You can't live with kids on $83 monthly, let alone one-time. Surely there's something else if you don't have a job?

Spooky23 5y ago
That’s just cash benefits. Men and married couples by design don’t get most benefits. Most safety net assistance isn’t in cash. There’s a stigma associated with the cash handouts — people typically seek food, health and rent assistance.

jandrewrogers 5y ago

Per the US BLS and Federal Reserve, the median discretionary household income is $1000 per month. That is after all ordinary expenses, not just necessary ones. There is a significant percentage of the US that has no discretionary income in any meaningful sense, and that is something we should be concerned about, but it is nowhere near 50%.

nostrademons 5y ago

Assuming prices of necessities don't rise to capture that UBI. Which is a very real concern; when all your potential customers have an extra $1000/year, you raise your prices by $1000/year and suddenly you have $(1000 * # customers) extra per year and they're back where they started. To really fix poverty, you need to address shortages, particularly ones in basic necessities. If there's a housing unit available for everyone, landlords will have no leverage to raise rents. If there's a preschool for every kid, the cost of childcare won't go up. If there's a doctor (really a health insurer - the issue is monopolization of the customer channel) for everyone and you can switch easily, the cost of healthcare won't go up. If you give money to people and don't fix the underlying shortages, the price just adjusts to capture that money.

cma 5y ago
Isn't this assuming competion doesn't exist? For a fixed pool of rare trading cards or something this logic may hold though.
- nostrademons 5y ago
  Yes, it's assuming competition doesn't exist, or that competitors are few enough in number that they can collude to not undercut each other. An increasing number of necessities are reaching that state, though. The U.S. has about 5 big health insurers, and in a given region you might only have a realistic choice between 2-3 of them. Many regions have only one broadband Internet provider, and one electric/gas/water/sewer/garbage utility. Childcare and housing are competitive, but with an undersupply that's gotten significantly worse during the pandemic. My county closed 75% of its registered daycares during lockdown; fortunately births plummeted and some are coming back, but there've already been pretty significant price increases. A lot of small-time landlords were forced out of the market by eviction moratoriums, so expect even more corporate-owned apartment complexes. Fix the competition issue and I'm all for UBI, but if you just institute UBI without fixing zoning and antitrust and regulatory capture it's just going to enrich a small class of people.