4 ms·

Playing devil's advocate because I don't think cost is the main reason we don't have universal healthcare in the US: Bernie Sanders (who is probably the most p

Playing devil's advocate because I don't think cost is the main reason we don't have universal healthcare in the US: Bernie Sanders (who is probably the most pro-universal healthcare politician in the US so his numbers might be on the low side) estimated that Medicare For All would cost $3-4 trillion per year. The war in Afghanistan was about 10x cheaper per year.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pessimizer 5y ago
Healthcare spending is currently $3-4 trillion a year. The important number is the difference between M4A and the status quo, not total spending. The sleazy hacks quoting him intentionally equivocated about this.
- hack-news 5y ago
  God damn HN is so fucking dumb it hurts. I've been trying to tell these idiots this stuff for like 10 years... The world can't end soon enough.
- dougmwne 5y ago
  How can this be so damn expensive? That's 1,000 a month for every single adult and child in the USA. We must be seriously mismanaging our healthcare.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Yes. Most expensive but poor quality overall. https://www.brookings.edu/research/a-dozen-facts-about-the-economics-of-the-u-s-health-care-system/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/a-dozen-facts-about-the-e... (“A dozen facts about the economics of the US health-care system”) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/05/global-health-rankings/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/05/global-healt... (“The United States has the worst health-care system overall among 11 high-income countries, even though it spends the highest proportion of its gross domestic product on health care, according to research by the Commonwealth Fund.”)
  - secondaryacct 5y ago
    In France where I was raised and China where I raise my kids, which both have affordable good quality health care, we tend to say it's due to economy of scale. We negociate national prices with indian labs, we manufacture at planned cost locally, we use the school system in synergy with healthcare to do preventive vaccination, dental, eye and ear care, we work hard on conflict of interest between doctors and drug sellers (a doctor always find you sicker if he makes a profit on the medicine he prescribes), we encourage to fix very early that way rather than when it s far too late. In France, competition between providers is hunted even more than communists would, with geographical quotas and strict university numerus closus to ensure price stability and fair enough spread of providers nationally (but still have challenges in the countryside). Both systems are far from perfect and bleed tax money, but... so much more efficient than the weird US system that requires loan from poor people to fix a broken leg (I probably exaggerate).
    - dougmwne 5y ago
      Interesting perspective, and thanks! Per your last point, it's basically correct, but more like an involuntary loan. Upfront payment is never required, but a debt always results. If you were to arrive unconscious at a hospital after an accident, they would save your life and you could wake up to a bill that was more than your net worth. No person with any sense and assets to protect would go without health insurance. The poor just avoid the debt collectors as long as they can.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

pessimizer 5y ago

Healthcare spending is currently $3-4 trillion a year. The important number is the difference between M4A and the status quo, not total spending. The sleazy hacks quoting him intentionally equivocated about this.

hack-news 5y ago
God damn HN is so fucking dumb it hurts. I've been trying to tell these idiots this stuff for like 10 years... The world can't end soon enough.
dougmwne 5y ago
How can this be so damn expensive? That's 1,000 a month for every single adult and child in the USA. We must be seriously mismanaging our healthcare.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Yes. Most expensive but poor quality overall. https://www.brookings.edu/research/a-dozen-facts-about-the-economics-of-the-u-s-health-care-system/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/a-dozen-facts-about-the-e... (“A dozen facts about the economics of the US health-care system”) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/05/global-health-rankings/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/05/global-healt... (“The United States has the worst health-care system overall among 11 high-income countries, even though it spends the highest proportion of its gross domestic product on health care, according to research by the Commonwealth Fund.”)
- secondaryacct 5y ago
  In France where I was raised and China where I raise my kids, which both have affordable good quality health care, we tend to say it's due to economy of scale. We negociate national prices with indian labs, we manufacture at planned cost locally, we use the school system in synergy with healthcare to do preventive vaccination, dental, eye and ear care, we work hard on conflict of interest between doctors and drug sellers (a doctor always find you sicker if he makes a profit on the medicine he prescribes), we encourage to fix very early that way rather than when it s far too late. In France, competition between providers is hunted even more than communists would, with geographical quotas and strict university numerus closus to ensure price stability and fair enough spread of providers nationally (but still have challenges in the countryside). Both systems are far from perfect and bleed tax money, but... so much more efficient than the weird US system that requires loan from poor people to fix a broken leg (I probably exaggerate).
  - dougmwne 5y ago
    Interesting perspective, and thanks! Per your last point, it's basically correct, but more like an involuntary loan. Upfront payment is never required, but a debt always results. If you were to arrive unconscious at a hospital after an accident, they would save your life and you could wake up to a bill that was more than your net worth. No person with any sense and assets to protect would go without health insurance. The poor just avoid the debt collectors as long as they can.