6 ms·

What you don't understand is that if you hate life, and perhaps if you have money and comforts that you know should help... but you still are miserable, it feel

by blunte 5y ago

What you don't understand is that if you hate life, and perhaps if you have money and comforts that you know should help... but you still are miserable, it feels hopeless. The money traps you. It's so hard to imagine taking a huge pay cut. But that pay cut, and living life the way you want, is more important. Hating most of your hours each day until you're 45 or 50 and then retiring will leave you such a different and sad person that retirement won't be joyful. The problem with a human life is that we can only know intimately what we experience. It's so difficult to really know how the other choices would have been (for us). I'm probably not in the financial situation as the quant, but I know the feeling. If I could tell the college me advice, it would have been to do the music degree instead of compsci. My family has all worked very hard until retirement, and then the lack of income made them hyper sensitive to spending anything. "Never spend your capital; live off the interest." So you die with a few million in the bank. Now you don't want to spend your last 10 or 20 years poor and hungry, but there must be a middle ground.

thebrowncat 5y ago
The other issue with trying to power through the job whilst absolutely hating it, is that your performance suffers and you end up getting fired. The turnover rate in quant finance is extremely high and it's not just because people voluntarily quit.
- mech422 5y ago
  Not to sound harsh - but its a trade off...You seem to want the money and the job satisfaction/community/work-life balance... Its incredibly hard to get it all. Pick the ones that are most important to you, and let the others sort themselves out. Sounds like you're only going to make another year or two at you're current job before you're totally fried. So perhaps start looking for new stuff now, and start socking away extra cash in case you want to retire. P.S. The turnover rate in programming in general is very high. I was surprised the 'average' programmer changes careers after 10 (5?) years. Burnout is real everywhere.
  - mech422 5y ago
    bad form replying to myself, but this just occurred to me.. Given you sound fairly young, what about powering thru say 3 years with your partner to build a nest egg. Then both taking (perhaps lower paying) jobs that you enjoy, giving your nest egg time to grow - that way, you'd have the satisfaction of doing something you enjoy, and the option to retire whenever...
    - thebrowncat 5y ago
      I guess that’s what’s subconsciously been my plan for the last while. It’s just that on the rare occasions I’m with extended family and I’m reminded of what’s truly important in life, it brings my unhappiness to the fore again, and I resolve to try and do something about it.
      - blunte 5y ago
        Depression after returning to work from a holiday is very common. That should be a clue that we're doing something wrong as a society.
        burntoutfire 5y ago
        What is wrong is that people have unrealistic expectations towards their jobs (and, more general, their lives). These expectations are making them unhappy and depressed.
        blunte 5y ago
        Just as one block of 8 hour sleep is not what many humans are programmed for, one block of 9 hours in an office is often not what some humans are programmed for. But in both cases, that's what society has ended up adopting. There's a lot of research and information about the difficulty night owls and people with > 24hr body clocks face. I suspect there's some research about how some people are more cut out for bursts of work rather than a large contiguous block of attention (and I'm not just talking about ADHD people - which itself is a convenient but unreasonable box to categorize with). No, I believe the issue with post-vacation depression is that like a sponge, people expand back to something resembling who they are or could be while they are away from work. But when they go back to work, they are squeezed into the cube. The feeling is dramatic and unnatural. Or maybe they are suddenly in the cubicle next to the marketing guy (not hating on marketing, per se) who likes to take his calls on speakerphone all day while they are trying to build mental models and do deep thinking. I have after many years identified my pattern of experience. Each job starts with promise, turns into a grind with too many limitations, and ends with me hating my 9 hour block - even if I like my colleagues - and ultimately finding a new job or taking a freelance period. But sure, if you have impossible expectations - such as any lifestyle resembling what the typical middle class American had in the 1950s - then you will certainly be set for disappointment.
mech422 5y ago
We do understand... But if you want the money and want to retire early...that's the price you pay unless you're very lucky. Given the salaries O.P. and partner seem to be making, they could prolly power thru and retire in 5 years? 10 years tops ? Also, if retiring at 45 or 50 leaves you 'sad', I'd question your assumptions about retirement? Working for 25 years, and having another 50+ years of retirement ahead of you makes you sad? P.S. I don't do the "perpetual interest" thing..Even if you're very optimistic, 110 years should be plenty. I have mine based around 75-80. You'd be surprised how much that lowers what you 'need' to retire..
- loopz 5y ago
  You truly don't, if you think money has any intrinsic worth rather than how you choose to live your life. Let's say you sacrifice 10-15 years with a life miserable, but very fulfilling regards to money. How does that shape you as a person, and how will that shape your life after retiring early, rather than living another life, not ruled by currency? Some of us have already chosen differently, and have no problems regarding life's choices now, with or without Covid. That self-integrity and intuition just can't be bought with money. For others, there may be no choice. But then the question would never arise..
  - mech422 5y ago
    that sounds very nice and all, but unless you're independently wealthy or someone else is supporting you, you're making the same trade off as everyone else. You've just opted to take a long slow path vs others that just want to get it over with. Your still going to need some baseline amount of money to survive, whether you make it 'all at once' or slowly over the rest of your life. And as long as you're working, your going to have some percentage of bad days, days you don't want to be there, etc. Its the same formula, only the parameters have changed. Also, if being miserable at work 'shapes you as a person' or has a substantial impact on your 'self-integrity' it sounds like you're the one defining yourself via work? More outside activities might help? You have to be able to leave work behind at the end of the day... I grew up in a mill town with a large part of the population hating what they did..but they did it every day for 20 or 30 years to take care of their families. For most, being miserable at work wasn't the defining facet of their lives. They had hobbies, coached little league, and did a million other things. While it was far from perfect, most of the people I knew didn't 'let the job get to them'. As for the choices you made - good for you :-) Glad you found a set of parameters that works for you! :-D
BlissWaves 5y ago
Why music degree instead of CS?
- blunte 5y ago
  Music, both listening and performing, has been one of the few things in life that really fills me with joy and gives me the strongest (positive) emotions. If I had gotten a music degree, I could have probably been a decent composer and a better instrumentalist; so I might have been able to make a living. Or at least I probably wouldn't have gotten enough early higher paying jobs that I trapped myself in that money cycle.
  - granshaw 5y ago
    I don’t know what your partner/family situation is - I feel like I could easily wind down my spending and comfort level, but I don’t want to put my partner through that. I think in most cases this is the constraining factor
    - blunte 5y ago
      That is and has been one of my best excuses (and a pretty valid one, especially when children are involved). Now this is rather extreme in comparison, but some young families with children live a bit of the slow-nomad life, on a minimal budget. It's difficult to know if that would be overall good or negative for them and the kids, but I kind of suspect it would make for better young humans. I imagine it would mean a lot less prejudice and intolerane of others if you grew up being exposed to many different cultures.
armchairhacker 5y ago
Agreed. I do think you have to work for your future self and sacrifice some time and happiness for a stable income. But not to the extent that you can't enjoy your current life. I think that OP should look for another job that he might not love, but will hate less.

by blunte 5y ago

thebrowncat 5y ago

The other issue with trying to power through the job whilst absolutely hating it, is that your performance suffers and you end up getting fired. The turnover rate in quant finance is extremely high and it's not just because people voluntarily quit.

mech422 5y ago
Not to sound harsh - but its a trade off...You seem to want the money and the job satisfaction/community/work-life balance... Its incredibly hard to get it all. Pick the ones that are most important to you, and let the others sort themselves out. Sounds like you're only going to make another year or two at you're current job before you're totally fried. So perhaps start looking for new stuff now, and start socking away extra cash in case you want to retire. P.S. The turnover rate in programming in general is very high. I was surprised the 'average' programmer changes careers after 10 (5?) years. Burnout is real everywhere.
- mech422 5y ago
  bad form replying to myself, but this just occurred to me.. Given you sound fairly young, what about powering thru say 3 years with your partner to build a nest egg. Then both taking (perhaps lower paying) jobs that you enjoy, giving your nest egg time to grow - that way, you'd have the satisfaction of doing something you enjoy, and the option to retire whenever...
  - thebrowncat 5y ago
    I guess that’s what’s subconsciously been my plan for the last while. It’s just that on the rare occasions I’m with extended family and I’m reminded of what’s truly important in life, it brings my unhappiness to the fore again, and I resolve to try and do something about it.
    - blunte 5y ago
      Depression after returning to work from a holiday is very common. That should be a clue that we're doing something wrong as a society.
      - burntoutfire 5y ago
        What is wrong is that people have unrealistic expectations towards their jobs (and, more general, their lives). These expectations are making them unhappy and depressed.
        blunte 5y ago
        Just as one block of 8 hour sleep is not what many humans are programmed for, one block of 9 hours in an office is often not what some humans are programmed for. But in both cases, that's what society has ended up adopting. There's a lot of research and information about the difficulty night owls and people with > 24hr body clocks face. I suspect there's some research about how some people are more cut out for bursts of work rather than a large contiguous block of attention (and I'm not just talking about ADHD people - which itself is a convenient but unreasonable box to categorize with). No, I believe the issue with post-vacation depression is that like a sponge, people expand back to something resembling who they are or could be while they are away from work. But when they go back to work, they are squeezed into the cube. The feeling is dramatic and unnatural. Or maybe they are suddenly in the cubicle next to the marketing guy (not hating on marketing, per se) who likes to take his calls on speakerphone all day while they are trying to build mental models and do deep thinking. I have after many years identified my pattern of experience. Each job starts with promise, turns into a grind with too many limitations, and ends with me hating my 9 hour block - even if I like my colleagues - and ultimately finding a new job or taking a freelance period. But sure, if you have impossible expectations - such as any lifestyle resembling what the typical middle class American had in the 1950s - then you will certainly be set for disappointment.

mech422 5y ago

We do understand... But if you want the money and want to retire early...that's the price you pay unless you're very lucky. Given the salaries O.P. and partner seem to be making, they could prolly power thru and retire in 5 years? 10 years tops ? Also, if retiring at 45 or 50 leaves you 'sad', I'd question your assumptions about retirement? Working for 25 years, and having another 50+ years of retirement ahead of you makes you sad? P.S. I don't do the "perpetual interest" thing..Even if you're very optimistic, 110 years should be plenty. I have mine based around 75-80. You'd be surprised how much that lowers what you 'need' to retire..

loopz 5y ago
You truly don't, if you think money has any intrinsic worth rather than how you choose to live your life. Let's say you sacrifice 10-15 years with a life miserable, but very fulfilling regards to money. How does that shape you as a person, and how will that shape your life after retiring early, rather than living another life, not ruled by currency? Some of us have already chosen differently, and have no problems regarding life's choices now, with or without Covid. That self-integrity and intuition just can't be bought with money. For others, there may be no choice. But then the question would never arise..
- mech422 5y ago
  that sounds very nice and all, but unless you're independently wealthy or someone else is supporting you, you're making the same trade off as everyone else. You've just opted to take a long slow path vs others that just want to get it over with. Your still going to need some baseline amount of money to survive, whether you make it 'all at once' or slowly over the rest of your life. And as long as you're working, your going to have some percentage of bad days, days you don't want to be there, etc. Its the same formula, only the parameters have changed. Also, if being miserable at work 'shapes you as a person' or has a substantial impact on your 'self-integrity' it sounds like you're the one defining yourself via work? More outside activities might help? You have to be able to leave work behind at the end of the day... I grew up in a mill town with a large part of the population hating what they did..but they did it every day for 20 or 30 years to take care of their families. For most, being miserable at work wasn't the defining facet of their lives. They had hobbies, coached little league, and did a million other things. While it was far from perfect, most of the people I knew didn't 'let the job get to them'. As for the choices you made - good for you :-) Glad you found a set of parameters that works for you! :-D

BlissWaves 5y ago

Why music degree instead of CS?

blunte 5y ago
Music, both listening and performing, has been one of the few things in life that really fills me with joy and gives me the strongest (positive) emotions. If I had gotten a music degree, I could have probably been a decent composer and a better instrumentalist; so I might have been able to make a living. Or at least I probably wouldn't have gotten enough early higher paying jobs that I trapped myself in that money cycle.
- granshaw 5y ago
  I don’t know what your partner/family situation is - I feel like I could easily wind down my spending and comfort level, but I don’t want to put my partner through that. I think in most cases this is the constraining factor
  - blunte 5y ago
    That is and has been one of my best excuses (and a pretty valid one, especially when children are involved). Now this is rather extreme in comparison, but some young families with children live a bit of the slow-nomad life, on a minimal budget. It's difficult to know if that would be overall good or negative for them and the kids, but I kind of suspect it would make for better young humans. I imagine it would mean a lot less prejudice and intolerane of others if you grew up being exposed to many different cultures.

armchairhacker 5y ago

Agreed. I do think you have to work for your future self and sacrifice some time and happiness for a stable income. But not to the extent that you can't enjoy your current life. I think that OP should look for another job that he might not love, but will hate less.