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Orthogonal often seems to be used in place of "unrelated" but deployed by the person to make what they're saying sound cleverer than it really is since they've

by jmfldn 5y ago

Orthogonal often seems to be used in place of "unrelated" but deployed by the person to make what they're saying sound cleverer than it really is since they've used maths terminology!

Spivak 5y ago
I use orthogonal specifically to say that two or more things can be changed independently without affecting the others. I don't think unrelated carries that connotation with how people actually use it. I've never actually met someone who uses unrelated to mean "the absence of relations" literally. Maybe it should but I won't get too broken up about it as a language descriptivist.
- jmfldn 5y ago
  Perhaps, that's just been my impression at least in some cases I've seen. It has its valid usages I'm sure.
BeetleB 5y ago
Not really. It's a culture thing. In certain tech fields, (in academia), the concept of orthogonality is important. Hang out with those crowds and they'll use "orthogonal" in their day to day usage all the time. To them it's not a fancier version of "unrelated". It's at the same level.
deleted 5y ago
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jozvolskyef 5y ago
I just tried searching HN for occurrences of "is orthogonal", and it does seem that most uses would be better served with "unrelated". In some cases, however, orthogonal sounds more appropriate, and the reason are the geometric associations that it evokes. For example in the sentence "Having chip/pin is orthogonal to the card being a credit or debit card", orthogonal evokes the image of a contingency table where all the cells are non-zero. The word "unrelated" doesn't have the same effect despite being synonymous.
dilyevsky 5y ago
Kind of like people using big-O notation when talking about constant numbers
brianmcc 5y ago
This may well be true, but it can also be an accurate and succinct word for "related to the bigger picture but a separate conversation". E.g. performance and security of the system both relate to that system but each dimension can be worked on or discussed without necessarily impacting the other. Our team uses it quite organically and humbly (and not excessively) but yes it absolutely is a candidate for use in an affected manner rather than a genuine one.

by jmfldn 5y ago

Orthogonal often seems to be used in place of "unrelated" but deployed by the person to make what they're saying sound cleverer than it really is since they've used maths terminology!

Spivak 5y ago

I use orthogonal specifically to say that two or more things can be changed independently without affecting the others. I don't think unrelated carries that connotation with how people actually use it. I've never actually met someone who uses unrelated to mean "the absence of relations" literally. Maybe it should but I won't get too broken up about it as a language descriptivist.

jmfldn 5y ago
Perhaps, that's just been my impression at least in some cases I've seen. It has its valid usages I'm sure.

BeetleB 5y ago

Not really. It's a culture thing. In certain tech fields, (in academia), the concept of orthogonality is important. Hang out with those crowds and they'll use "orthogonal" in their day to day usage all the time. To them it's not a fancier version of "unrelated". It's at the same level.

deleted 5y ago

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jozvolskyef 5y ago

I just tried searching HN for occurrences of "is orthogonal", and it does seem that most uses would be better served with "unrelated". In some cases, however, orthogonal sounds more appropriate, and the reason are the geometric associations that it evokes. For example in the sentence "Having chip/pin is orthogonal to the card being a credit or debit card", orthogonal evokes the image of a contingency table where all the cells are non-zero. The word "unrelated" doesn't have the same effect despite being synonymous.

dilyevsky 5y ago

Kind of like people using big-O notation when talking about constant numbers

brianmcc 5y ago

This may well be true, but it can also be an accurate and succinct word for "related to the bigger picture but a separate conversation". E.g. performance and security of the system both relate to that system but each dimension can be worked on or discussed without necessarily impacting the other. Our team uses it quite organically and humbly (and not excessively) but yes it absolutely is a candidate for use in an affected manner rather than a genuine one.