3 ms·

So the cofounder was not telling the truth then?

edoceo 5y ago
Correct.
collectedparts 5y ago
The cofounder was telling the truth (or, at least, nothing in the lawsuit implies that he was not). The plaintiffs in this case are claiming that when they linked their bank accounts to PayPal/Venmo/etc using Plaid they didn't realize what they were doing, or that it's somehow unfair that Paypal/Venmo/etc got their banking data (despite knowingly inputting their credentials into Paypal/Venmo/etc). Paypal/Venmo/etc is not a third party in that case. They're the party that the customer was knowingly interacting with. A third party would be an unknown / unrelated data broker. Ie, the cofounder is claiming that they don't turn around and resell data to anyone other than the app that the customer was deliberately using.
- akarma 5y ago
  The link mentions third party firms: > Plaid has settled a $58 million class action lawsuit over claims that the fintech firm passed on personal banking data to third party firms without user consent. and selling transaction histories: > the plaintiffs alleged that Plaid has “exploited its position as middleman” to obtain app users’ banking login credentials and use that information to gain access to and sell their transaction histories. For what it's worth I haven't read the actual lawsuit yet, but would love a link if it refutes the article.
  - ahzhou 5y ago
    Here's the actual suit. https://www.classaction.org/media/cottle-et-al-v-plaid-inc.pdf https://www.classaction.org/media/cottle-et-al-v-plaid-inc.p.... I wrote a post above on my take but TL;DR - I think that the suit is mostly alleging that Plaid doesn't do enough disclosure of what's happening behind the scenes. It suggests that Plaid might sell the data to unrelated third parties, but doesn't support it with any proof. It does support itself with proof that Plaid "sells" data to the app that is being connected to the bank.
- majormajor 5y ago
  The "using Plaid" part of what you're saying confuses me. My reading is that the plaintiffs are claiming that they signed up for Paypal or Venmo directly, linked their banks account, and were unaware that behind the scenes this meant their data went to Plaid, and that then Plaid both gathered data from this and sold the data. If that's accurate - if the plaintiffs were just trying to use Paypal + their bank account, and only coincidentally using Plaid because Paypal used Plaid - then any data being captured and stored by Plaid does sound extremely fishy. I'd want them to just be a bridge to let info flow between the bank and Paypal, not store any of that themselves too. That part seems sketchy even if they never sold it - I still don't think they should keep it in the first place.
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    >then any data being captured and stored by Plaid does sound extremely fishy I've integrated with Plaid's API (a long time ago), and this doesn't sound fishy. Plaid's API is pretty comprehensive and it would have PayPal's job to unlink the connection after the verification took place. Plaid gives you a "token" representing the user that can be used to further look up information in their account - such as new transactions. If PayPal had naively enabled the usage of those APIs, then it's not surprising Plaid stored that data. For example, if you (the API client) didn't want to store any information except for a user token (similar how you might store tokens with Stripe's API), then every time you needed to lookup the client's account number you would call Plaid's API to retrieve that data (which, by definition, they would be storing).
    - majormajor 5y ago
      As a customer, though, that still sounds very dismaying to me. If I'm linking my bank to paypal to send money back and forth, I don't want: (a) paypal getting transaction history, (b) a third party company hanging on to those credentials, (c) that third party company getting any view of transactions either. I just want Paypal to send/retrieve money. I thought Plaid just translated "different bank acount APIs" to a dev-friendly one. If they're using that to collect a lot of data THEMSELVES from customers who just wanted bank interop... that's bad. Nobody "using" Plaid is intended to give this intermediary company all that info. I'm linking my account to Paypal because I (thought that) I trusted Paypal. I never knew I was actually giving all this shit to this other company too. (In my case, I've used routing number/checking number because they seemed to require handing over less privileges than my full password, and this certainly seems to reinforce my skepticism about using the "sign in to your bank" password auth for linkage.)

Correct.

The cofounder was telling the truth (or, at least, nothing in the lawsuit implies that he was not). The plaintiffs in this case are claiming that when they linked their bank accounts to PayPal/Venmo/etc using Plaid they didn't realize what they were doing, or that it's somehow unfair that Paypal/Venmo/etc got their banking data (despite knowingly inputting their credentials into Paypal/Venmo/etc). Paypal/Venmo/etc is not a third party in that case. They're the party that the customer was knowingly interacting with. A third party would be an unknown / unrelated data broker. Ie, the cofounder is claiming that they don't turn around and resell data to anyone other than the app that the customer was deliberately using.

akarma 5y ago
The link mentions third party firms: > Plaid has settled a $58 million class action lawsuit over claims that the fintech firm passed on personal banking data to third party firms without user consent. and selling transaction histories: > the plaintiffs alleged that Plaid has “exploited its position as middleman” to obtain app users’ banking login credentials and use that information to gain access to and sell their transaction histories. For what it's worth I haven't read the actual lawsuit yet, but would love a link if it refutes the article.
- ahzhou 5y ago
  Here's the actual suit. https://www.classaction.org/media/cottle-et-al-v-plaid-inc.pdf https://www.classaction.org/media/cottle-et-al-v-plaid-inc.p.... I wrote a post above on my take but TL;DR - I think that the suit is mostly alleging that Plaid doesn't do enough disclosure of what's happening behind the scenes. It suggests that Plaid might sell the data to unrelated third parties, but doesn't support it with any proof. It does support itself with proof that Plaid "sells" data to the app that is being connected to the bank.
majormajor 5y ago
The "using Plaid" part of what you're saying confuses me. My reading is that the plaintiffs are claiming that they signed up for Paypal or Venmo directly, linked their banks account, and were unaware that behind the scenes this meant their data went to Plaid, and that then Plaid both gathered data from this and sold the data. If that's accurate - if the plaintiffs were just trying to use Paypal + their bank account, and only coincidentally using Plaid because Paypal used Plaid - then any data being captured and stored by Plaid does sound extremely fishy. I'd want them to just be a bridge to let info flow between the bank and Paypal, not store any of that themselves too. That part seems sketchy even if they never sold it - I still don't think they should keep it in the first place.
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >then any data being captured and stored by Plaid does sound extremely fishy I've integrated with Plaid's API (a long time ago), and this doesn't sound fishy. Plaid's API is pretty comprehensive and it would have PayPal's job to unlink the connection after the verification took place. Plaid gives you a "token" representing the user that can be used to further look up information in their account - such as new transactions. If PayPal had naively enabled the usage of those APIs, then it's not surprising Plaid stored that data. For example, if you (the API client) didn't want to store any information except for a user token (similar how you might store tokens with Stripe's API), then every time you needed to lookup the client's account number you would call Plaid's API to retrieve that data (which, by definition, they would be storing).
  - majormajor 5y ago
    As a customer, though, that still sounds very dismaying to me. If I'm linking my bank to paypal to send money back and forth, I don't want: (a) paypal getting transaction history, (b) a third party company hanging on to those credentials, (c) that third party company getting any view of transactions either. I just want Paypal to send/retrieve money. I thought Plaid just translated "different bank acount APIs" to a dev-friendly one. If they're using that to collect a lot of data THEMSELVES from customers who just wanted bank interop... that's bad. Nobody "using" Plaid is intended to give this intermediary company all that info. I'm linking my account to Paypal because I (thought that) I trusted Paypal. I never knew I was actually giving all this shit to this other company too. (In my case, I've used routing number/checking number because they seemed to require handing over less privileges than my full password, and this certainly seems to reinforce my skepticism about using the "sign in to your bank" password auth for linkage.)