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Regardless of the health conclusions - you can't deny the amount of sugar in single cup - absolutely contributes to the obesity we are all facing.

palish 15y ago
I deny that it contributes to obesity for all people. I believe no one can actually claim people understand nutrition --- in the same way we understand Newtonian physics, for example. I've never cared about what I eat. If I want something, I eat it. When I'm full, I stop. Over the last two years, my weight has stayed between 210lbs and 220lbs. I'm lucky. But I'm also a datapoint. Since some people can simply not care about what they eat, and they don't get fat, then I'd bet money other people can watch what they eat and still get fat. And of course, for other people, watching what they eat will make them skinnier. The point is, everyone is different, and no one can say with a straight face that we understand nutrition well enough to make broad claims like "the amount of sugar in a single cup of orange juice contributes to the obesity we're all facing".
- hollerith 15y ago
  Yeah, "you cannot deny" is drastically overconfident even though a well-to-do, first-world person picked at random is probably better off ingesting less fructose than they currently ingest.
- saturn 15y ago
  No offence, but only an American could make the argument that because their weight has stayed "only" between 95kg and 100kg that they are living proof that people can eat what they want and not get fat. Unless you are a bodybuilder, which I am guessing you are not since they most certainly do care about what they eat, you are likely considered overweight in every other country on earth.
  - wisty 15y ago
    I was a similar weight. But being 6 foot 3 helps. A BMI of 26-28 is overweight, it's most people don't really notice. It's also really easy to lose, if you can just cut down a little.
    - dredmorbius 15y ago
      BMI is crap: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1062684... Top ten reasons the BMI is bogus http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_05_09.html http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_05_09.html Do You Believe in Fairies, Unicorns, or the BMI? http://www.slate.com/id/2223095/ http://www.slate.com/id/2223095/ Why doctors won't stop using an outdated measure for obesity If you want to measure body fat, measure body fat.
    - JanezStupar 15y ago
      BMI is truly shit. Let me tell you an anecdote. While at Uni I was a semi professional MTB DH racer. I am 188cm tall and weighted 88kg when in best shape of my life - I weigh a lot since my build is super robust (I had <10% body fat at that point) and I do have big bones :) (really you should see my wrists). In December, that means off season for me (athletes tend to pick up some weight during that period), we had an physical exam for Uni - I weighted 94kg at that point. So at the end of all the tests I walk into the doctors office, who while peering into my file commands me to take off my shirt and sit down. She proceeds to comment the results along the lines of: "... everything is perfect, but you are overweight (BMI 26.6) - you absolutely have to loose some weight!" At this time she rises her eyes from the file and looks at me sitting in front of her, top naked. Blushes and says: " but only a kilo or two!". BMI may work for average. But the sad fact is that people are rarely average. And as others have noted, recent findings indicate that some level of body fat - protects from diabetes and other diseases. Meaning that nutrition is not really that simple.
  - palish 15y ago
    Well, here I am. Judge for yourself: http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/24114_337315700845_500275845_4090376_7001455_n.jpg?dl=1 http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/24114_337315700... I drink over half gallon of soda a day, and survive mostly on $1 McChickens. So I'm either a freak of nature, or we don't know as much as we think we do about nature.
    - saturn 15y ago
      Dude, don't put me on the spot like that. I'm not going to judge your bloody photo. What is this, hotornot.com? That said, you're pretty young, and your awful diet has evidently not caught up with you yet. When it does, I predict a swift re-evaluation of your ideas about nutrition and self-exceptionalism.
      - palish 15y ago
        I'm sorry.
      - Nrsolis 15y ago
        I'll bite. Right now you're doing OK because you've got a relatively high metabolic rate. By the time you hit your mid-30s to early 40s, a natural drop in testosterone is going to slow that metabolic rate right down and you'll see a gradual buildup of belly fat. In fact, I can already see the beginnings of it in your photo right now. I can't see your jawline but your cheeks look a little full for a guy your age. I used to be 140-150# and now I fight to stay at 180#. In all likelihood I'm never going to get back to where I once was. I've redirected my goals to minimizing bodyfat and building muscle. It's not easy but my health has improved markedly.
    - JanezStupar 15y ago
      Dude I hate to break you're little bubble - but you fat. You might not be as hopelessly obese as people you are used to calling fat. But the truth is you are fat too. You don't look healthy either and with continuing your lifestyle like you do, You are a ticking timebomb of diabetes, cholesterol issues, gout and other nasty metabolic diseases. Take an example of my mother, she is 70 and has developed both gout and diabetes. Now imagine what you are allowed to eat - to not have issues with your body (hint. For diabetes - sugars are verboten and for gout proteins are denied.). Now imagine that there is a very real risk, that you will be in same condition by your mid 40's. Wake up. Now. Edit: I understand that a lot of HNers with our geeky lifestyles deem OP completely "normal" and "healthy" - but this is simply not the truth. And thus everybody might be in a deep denial.
  - Tsagadai 15y ago
    My weight fluctuates between ~90kg and ~105kg. I'm over 200cm. In no sense of either word am I overweight or a bodybuilder. It is definitely possible to be over 100kg and not considered overweight if you are tall.
  - Qz 15y ago
    I eat what I want and I have stayed between 130 and 135 for over 10 years.
  - nosse 15y ago
    190cm 98kg. Not feeling fat at all. Dangerous assumptions here. Weight only tells you how much somebody weight's that's it.
    - mannicken 15y ago
      189 cm 79 kg, feeling very fat. Anorexia sucks :\
- wisty 15y ago
  I doubt the whole "metabolism" thing. 90% of the people I meet with a "gland problem" also drink about half a gallon of Coke every day, and snack on chips or sweets. Maybe they have a super-cream frappacino after work, but don't watch that because it's just a coffee. They usually have terrible habits, are are in complete denial about how many calories those habits constitute.
  - palish 15y ago
    I drink 88oz of coke every day. A gallon is 128oz. I also snack on chips a lot. I'm definitely not skinny, but by your logic, I should be about to overtake Gabe Newell. I'm not. Most people are arrogant and think they know more than they do. The truth is, we know very little about nutrition (in an absolute sense, like "I absolutely know that if I hit that ball with X force, it will move Y meters").
    - pyre 15y ago
      We do know basics though, like "you need vitamin C." If you eat no foods that contain essential nutrients (that our bodies don't produce) you will become deficient.
      - palish 15y ago
        Certainly. That was an important step in our understanding. And we need to do more research. I'm merely saying science is harmed when people blatantly decide to overlook reality. It seems very interesting to me that I can drink 88oz of soda every day for the past 6 months and still be at the same weight. Why is that? And it raises other interesting questions, too. Like the meaning of "health". For example, I know my muscles haven't been impacted, because I just armwrestled my wife's father and won, and the dude builds pole barns for a living. Like, goes out and actually builds them himself. So if soda is so terrible, why haven't I been affected? Or is the truth that I'm overlooking some aspect of my health? I'm interested in the answers, but I won't ever find out if arrogant scientists continue with the "soda is terrible!" mantra. Edit: as pyre points out, if someone reads this and thinks "Gee, maybe I'll try suddenly drinking 88oz of soda every day too!"... don't. I was just pointing out what I do, not saying that it's safe.
- CaptainZapp 15y ago
  I add it here, because at your more inner post there's no reply link. If you think Chicken McNuggets have a lot to do with chicken, think again. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_McNuggets http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_McNuggets "As of October 9, 2010, the ingredients are as follows: Chicken, water, salt, sodium phosphates. Battered and breaded with: bleached wheat flour, water, wheat flour, food starch-modified, salt, spices, wheat gluten, paprika, dextrose, yeast, garlic powder, rosemary, partially hydrogenated soybean oil and cottonseed oil with mono -and diglycerides, leavening (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, ammonium bicarbonate, monocalcium phosphate), natural flavor (plant source) with extractives of paprika. Prepared in vegetable oil (Canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, hydrogenated soybean oil with TBHQ and citric acid added to preserve freshness). Dimethylpolysiloxane made of silicone[4] is added as an antifoaming agent.[5] The list may be slightly different outside of the United States." Chicken McNuggets are pure crap with much too much fat and very low nutritional value. It's your problem in the end, but as some fellow HNers already pointed out you're in for a very bad surprise not too far from now. Another tip would be to replace the soda with water. So much better for you and you get the hang of it pretty quickly.
  - palish 15y ago
    Keep in mind I said "McChicken", not "McNuggets". It's a sandwich with mayo and lettuce. But I'm sure it's similarly "bad" for me.
    - redthrowaway 15y ago
      It's made with the same "chicken", which is blended, has fillers added, then pressed into breast-like shapes. It's not at all healthy: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/foods-from-mcdonalds/6232/2 http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/foods-from-mcdonalds/623... An 8 oz can of coke has 142 calories, all from sugar. That means you're consuming 1562, or 75% of your daily recommended caloric intake from sugar alone. That's fucking terrible, man. Stop doing that.
  - roel_v 15y ago
    Your post does not in any way prove that there isn't a lot of chicken in a McNugget (I don't know anything about them, so not claiming there is or isn't). Just because there are a lot of added ingredients, if the overall mass of the chicken is 95% (some made up number, again I don't know anything about this), it's not true that McNuggets 'don't have a lot to do with chicken'.
- iradik 15y ago
  how old and how tall are you?
  - palish 15y ago
    23, 5ft 11.5in (Hey, the doctor's the one who's always like "11 and a half", not me! Then I'm always tempted to say "You mean 11.5323in")
    - roel_v 15y ago
      1/2 inch is still more than one centimeter, so I can imagine that to stay within the tolerance that is used for tracking height globally, this level of detail is necessary. (doctors in places that use sane measurement systems usually round to either the centimeter or 1/2 centimeter even, which is +/- 1/5th of an inch).
    - iradik 15y ago
      Yup 23 is what I expected :)
- Shenglong 15y ago
  I eat the same way as you, but I've realized some of the fat, you just don't see. When I went to Shaolin to train, I was 174lbs, eating about 2,500-3,200 calories a day (estimate). During my 3 months there, I ate about 5,000-6,000 calories a day (estimate), and ended up 167 lbs. I'm 182 cm. The funny thing is, visually, there wasn't much of a difference other than my abs showing more, and more muscle. I concluded even those of us who are "lucky" in metabolics, still have fat to lose.
access_denied 15y ago
There exist different types of sugar. Sugar in coke is different from sugar in milk or sugar in an orange. Even the same tpyes of sugar come in different ways: the sugar in coke is the same 'type' as the one in the sugar beet - only it's not. It's a chemical made in factories.
scythe 15y ago
Really? I don't see people getting fat off of orange juice. Coca-Cola, beer, Gatorade, "sweet tea" with enough sugar in it to be poured on pancakes... these all seem like much more egregious offenders.
- pathjumper 15y ago
  A glass of orange juice from a store contains as more calories as an equivalent amount of soda: Calories in OJ: http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-orange-juice-i14425 http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-orange-juice-i14425 Calories in soda: http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-carbonated-beverage-i14400?size_grams=370.0 http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-carbonated-beverage-i... Adjusted for the same volume, the soda has 109, while the orange juice has 122.
  - scythe 15y ago
    It's not just about calories but overall nutritional value. The orange juice contains significantly more vitamins than the soda -- hell, the site you linked rates orange juice as healthier than soda, which should be telling.
eru 15y ago
> absolutely contributes to the obesity we are all facing. Not me. I'm actually trying to put on weight. And it's slow going.

palish 15y ago

I deny that it contributes to obesity for all people. I believe no one can actually claim people understand nutrition --- in the same way we understand Newtonian physics, for example. I've never cared about what I eat. If I want something, I eat it. When I'm full, I stop. Over the last two years, my weight has stayed between 210lbs and 220lbs. I'm lucky. But I'm also a datapoint. Since some people can simply not care about what they eat, and they don't get fat, then I'd bet money other people can watch what they eat and still get fat. And of course, for other people, watching what they eat will make them skinnier. The point is, everyone is different, and no one can say with a straight face that we understand nutrition well enough to make broad claims like "the amount of sugar in a single cup of orange juice contributes to the obesity we're all facing".

hollerith 15y ago
Yeah, "you cannot deny" is drastically overconfident even though a well-to-do, first-world person picked at random is probably better off ingesting less fructose than they currently ingest.
saturn 15y ago
No offence, but only an American could make the argument that because their weight has stayed "only" between 95kg and 100kg that they are living proof that people can eat what they want and not get fat. Unless you are a bodybuilder, which I am guessing you are not since they most certainly do care about what they eat, you are likely considered overweight in every other country on earth.
- wisty 15y ago
  I was a similar weight. But being 6 foot 3 helps. A BMI of 26-28 is overweight, it's most people don't really notice. It's also really easy to lose, if you can just cut down a little.
  - dredmorbius 15y ago
    BMI is crap: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1062684... Top ten reasons the BMI is bogus http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_05_09.html http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_05_09.html Do You Believe in Fairies, Unicorns, or the BMI? http://www.slate.com/id/2223095/ http://www.slate.com/id/2223095/ Why doctors won't stop using an outdated measure for obesity If you want to measure body fat, measure body fat.
  - JanezStupar 15y ago
    BMI is truly shit. Let me tell you an anecdote. While at Uni I was a semi professional MTB DH racer. I am 188cm tall and weighted 88kg when in best shape of my life - I weigh a lot since my build is super robust (I had <10% body fat at that point) and I do have big bones :) (really you should see my wrists). In December, that means off season for me (athletes tend to pick up some weight during that period), we had an physical exam for Uni - I weighted 94kg at that point. So at the end of all the tests I walk into the doctors office, who while peering into my file commands me to take off my shirt and sit down. She proceeds to comment the results along the lines of: "... everything is perfect, but you are overweight (BMI 26.6) - you absolutely have to loose some weight!" At this time she rises her eyes from the file and looks at me sitting in front of her, top naked. Blushes and says: " but only a kilo or two!". BMI may work for average. But the sad fact is that people are rarely average. And as others have noted, recent findings indicate that some level of body fat - protects from diabetes and other diseases. Meaning that nutrition is not really that simple.
- palish 15y ago
  Well, here I am. Judge for yourself: http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/24114_337315700845_500275845_4090376_7001455_n.jpg?dl=1 http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/24114_337315700... I drink over half gallon of soda a day, and survive mostly on $1 McChickens. So I'm either a freak of nature, or we don't know as much as we think we do about nature.
  - saturn 15y ago
    Dude, don't put me on the spot like that. I'm not going to judge your bloody photo. What is this, hotornot.com? That said, you're pretty young, and your awful diet has evidently not caught up with you yet. When it does, I predict a swift re-evaluation of your ideas about nutrition and self-exceptionalism.
    - palish 15y ago
      I'm sorry.
    - Nrsolis 15y ago
      I'll bite. Right now you're doing OK because you've got a relatively high metabolic rate. By the time you hit your mid-30s to early 40s, a natural drop in testosterone is going to slow that metabolic rate right down and you'll see a gradual buildup of belly fat. In fact, I can already see the beginnings of it in your photo right now. I can't see your jawline but your cheeks look a little full for a guy your age. I used to be 140-150# and now I fight to stay at 180#. In all likelihood I'm never going to get back to where I once was. I've redirected my goals to minimizing bodyfat and building muscle. It's not easy but my health has improved markedly.
  - JanezStupar 15y ago
    Dude I hate to break you're little bubble - but you fat. You might not be as hopelessly obese as people you are used to calling fat. But the truth is you are fat too. You don't look healthy either and with continuing your lifestyle like you do, You are a ticking timebomb of diabetes, cholesterol issues, gout and other nasty metabolic diseases. Take an example of my mother, she is 70 and has developed both gout and diabetes. Now imagine what you are allowed to eat - to not have issues with your body (hint. For diabetes - sugars are verboten and for gout proteins are denied.). Now imagine that there is a very real risk, that you will be in same condition by your mid 40's. Wake up. Now. Edit: I understand that a lot of HNers with our geeky lifestyles deem OP completely "normal" and "healthy" - but this is simply not the truth. And thus everybody might be in a deep denial.
- Tsagadai 15y ago
  My weight fluctuates between ~90kg and ~105kg. I'm over 200cm. In no sense of either word am I overweight or a bodybuilder. It is definitely possible to be over 100kg and not considered overweight if you are tall.
- Qz 15y ago
  I eat what I want and I have stayed between 130 and 135 for over 10 years.
- nosse 15y ago
  190cm 98kg. Not feeling fat at all. Dangerous assumptions here. Weight only tells you how much somebody weight's that's it.
  - mannicken 15y ago
    189 cm 79 kg, feeling very fat. Anorexia sucks :\
wisty 15y ago
I doubt the whole "metabolism" thing. 90% of the people I meet with a "gland problem" also drink about half a gallon of Coke every day, and snack on chips or sweets. Maybe they have a super-cream frappacino after work, but don't watch that because it's just a coffee. They usually have terrible habits, are are in complete denial about how many calories those habits constitute.
- palish 15y ago
  I drink 88oz of coke every day. A gallon is 128oz. I also snack on chips a lot. I'm definitely not skinny, but by your logic, I should be about to overtake Gabe Newell. I'm not. Most people are arrogant and think they know more than they do. The truth is, we know very little about nutrition (in an absolute sense, like "I absolutely know that if I hit that ball with X force, it will move Y meters").
  - pyre 15y ago
    We do know basics though, like "you need vitamin C." If you eat no foods that contain essential nutrients (that our bodies don't produce) you will become deficient.
    - palish 15y ago
      Certainly. That was an important step in our understanding. And we need to do more research. I'm merely saying science is harmed when people blatantly decide to overlook reality. It seems very interesting to me that I can drink 88oz of soda every day for the past 6 months and still be at the same weight. Why is that? And it raises other interesting questions, too. Like the meaning of "health". For example, I know my muscles haven't been impacted, because I just armwrestled my wife's father and won, and the dude builds pole barns for a living. Like, goes out and actually builds them himself. So if soda is so terrible, why haven't I been affected? Or is the truth that I'm overlooking some aspect of my health? I'm interested in the answers, but I won't ever find out if arrogant scientists continue with the "soda is terrible!" mantra. Edit: as pyre points out, if someone reads this and thinks "Gee, maybe I'll try suddenly drinking 88oz of soda every day too!"... don't. I was just pointing out what I do, not saying that it's safe.
CaptainZapp 15y ago
I add it here, because at your more inner post there's no reply link. If you think Chicken McNuggets have a lot to do with chicken, think again. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_McNuggets http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_McNuggets "As of October 9, 2010, the ingredients are as follows: Chicken, water, salt, sodium phosphates. Battered and breaded with: bleached wheat flour, water, wheat flour, food starch-modified, salt, spices, wheat gluten, paprika, dextrose, yeast, garlic powder, rosemary, partially hydrogenated soybean oil and cottonseed oil with mono -and diglycerides, leavening (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, ammonium bicarbonate, monocalcium phosphate), natural flavor (plant source) with extractives of paprika. Prepared in vegetable oil (Canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, hydrogenated soybean oil with TBHQ and citric acid added to preserve freshness). Dimethylpolysiloxane made of silicone[4] is added as an antifoaming agent.[5] The list may be slightly different outside of the United States." Chicken McNuggets are pure crap with much too much fat and very low nutritional value. It's your problem in the end, but as some fellow HNers already pointed out you're in for a very bad surprise not too far from now. Another tip would be to replace the soda with water. So much better for you and you get the hang of it pretty quickly.
- palish 15y ago
  Keep in mind I said "McChicken", not "McNuggets". It's a sandwich with mayo and lettuce. But I'm sure it's similarly "bad" for me.
  - redthrowaway 15y ago
    It's made with the same "chicken", which is blended, has fillers added, then pressed into breast-like shapes. It's not at all healthy: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/foods-from-mcdonalds/6232/2 http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/foods-from-mcdonalds/623... An 8 oz can of coke has 142 calories, all from sugar. That means you're consuming 1562, or 75% of your daily recommended caloric intake from sugar alone. That's fucking terrible, man. Stop doing that.
- roel_v 15y ago
  Your post does not in any way prove that there isn't a lot of chicken in a McNugget (I don't know anything about them, so not claiming there is or isn't). Just because there are a lot of added ingredients, if the overall mass of the chicken is 95% (some made up number, again I don't know anything about this), it's not true that McNuggets 'don't have a lot to do with chicken'.
iradik 15y ago
how old and how tall are you?
- palish 15y ago
  23, 5ft 11.5in (Hey, the doctor's the one who's always like "11 and a half", not me! Then I'm always tempted to say "You mean 11.5323in")
  - roel_v 15y ago
    1/2 inch is still more than one centimeter, so I can imagine that to stay within the tolerance that is used for tracking height globally, this level of detail is necessary. (doctors in places that use sane measurement systems usually round to either the centimeter or 1/2 centimeter even, which is +/- 1/5th of an inch).
  - iradik 15y ago
    Yup 23 is what I expected :)
Shenglong 15y ago
I eat the same way as you, but I've realized some of the fat, you just don't see. When I went to Shaolin to train, I was 174lbs, eating about 2,500-3,200 calories a day (estimate). During my 3 months there, I ate about 5,000-6,000 calories a day (estimate), and ended up 167 lbs. I'm 182 cm. The funny thing is, visually, there wasn't much of a difference other than my abs showing more, and more muscle. I concluded even those of us who are "lucky" in metabolics, still have fat to lose.

access_denied 15y ago

There exist different types of sugar. Sugar in coke is different from sugar in milk or sugar in an orange. Even the same tpyes of sugar come in different ways: the sugar in coke is the same 'type' as the one in the sugar beet - only it's not. It's a chemical made in factories.

scythe 15y ago

Really? I don't see people getting fat off of orange juice. Coca-Cola, beer, Gatorade, "sweet tea" with enough sugar in it to be poured on pancakes... these all seem like much more egregious offenders.

pathjumper 15y ago
A glass of orange juice from a store contains as more calories as an equivalent amount of soda: Calories in OJ: http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-orange-juice-i14425 http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-orange-juice-i14425 Calories in soda: http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-carbonated-beverage-i14400?size_grams=370.0 http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-carbonated-beverage-i... Adjusted for the same volume, the soda has 109, while the orange juice has 122.
- scythe 15y ago
  It's not just about calories but overall nutritional value. The orange juice contains significantly more vitamins than the soda -- hell, the site you linked rates orange juice as healthier than soda, which should be telling.

eru 15y ago

> absolutely contributes to the obesity we are all facing. Not me. I'm actually trying to put on weight. And it's slow going.