6 ms·

Oof, GM sucks and Ford isn't really even American. Talk about a one two punch. Not that I disagree with the main point, but jeez leave us with something wouldya

by fhood 5y ago

Oof, GM sucks and Ford isn't really even American. Talk about a one two punch. Not that I disagree with the main point, but jeez leave us with something wouldya?

dragontamer 5y ago
As an American, I recognize that the Ford cars popular across the pond are a very, very different set of vehicles than the Ford trucks popular around here. The Ford Focus (including the RS version) is popular in Europe. However, as an owner of such a car, I only get raised eyebrows around here. In contrast, F150 / Trucks / etc. etc. are "real Ford Cars". No one trusts Ford Sedans over here for some reason, despite their popularity in Europe (which is why Ford stopped selling Sedans in the USA, and are instead opting for a $20k truck: the Maverick, over continuing their efficient line of sedans)
- bsanr2 5y ago
  >No one trusts Ford Sedans over here for some reason From my personal observation: poor maintenance and safety ratings compared to alts. Driving is dangerous in America and you have to have a car to participate economically in most of the country. Also, the used market here is huge and not a lot of 90s/2000s Ford sedans made it this far. Anyone who knows better, feel free to correct.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    > poor maintenance and safety ratings compared to alts Ford Focus beat the pants off of Honda Fit, roughly in the same category of weight (though the Honda Fit is quite a bit cheaper MSRP, the Ford Focus was frequently on sale at quite low prices). But people _believe_ the Honda Fit has superior maintenance and safety ratings. So that's that. Reputation is more important than facts.
    - bsanr2 5y ago
      What? The Focus is a compact car and competes with the Civic. They've traded rankings over the years, but the Focus isn't a clear winner. The Fit is in a different class (a subcompact that competed with the Ford Fiesta), and in any case, I was thinking of the Corolla - which is far-and-away better-rated - and of larger sedans.
- foobarian 5y ago
  I don't think the problem with sedans was trust, so much as they were being outsold by SUVs and crossovers to the point it didn't make sense for Ford to keep making them. I'm still upset they cut the Focus/Fiesta ST models. You will have to pry mine from my cold dead fingers :-)
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > which is why Ford stopped selling Sedans in the USA More accurately, sedans from any manufacturer have been in steady decline for years. So only the biggest names are still selling enough to justify continued development. Everyone else is switching to CUVs because that's what customers want today. Can't blame them, typical CUVs now have basically the same fuel efficiency as a sedan but a little more utility and a bit easier to live with (slide in/out without up/down).
  - Retric 5y ago
    Some of that is just bouncing back from how low sedans became. A Ford land boat from the late 60’s and early 70’s didn’t require much getting up/down either.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    I think CUVs are getting better gas mileage as a result of the competitiveness of the market, but I don’t think CUV buyers really care about gas mileage. They were selling well before they got good gas mileage, and SUVs sold good in the US too with abysmal gas mileage. Hybrid sedans still blow any CUV out of the water on MPGs, and are often cheaper than non-hybrid CUV counterparts. People just like the configuration.
    - aaronbeekay 5y ago
      Agree with this broadly, but also CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) standards in the US mean that it likely was not possible for Ford to eliminate sedans before CUV fuel economy increased to a comparable point. (I work at Ford, but in a role that doesn’t give me insight into internal vehicle program strategy.)
- 2trill2spill 5y ago
  > The Ford Focus (including the RS version) is popular in Europe. However, as an owner of such a car, I only get raised eyebrows around here Really? I own a 2017 Ford Focus RS in the states and I get a lot of compliments on my car. Most people don't even realize its a focus.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    At least in my area, everyone recognizes the blue oval. Most people I talk to about my car is of the "Why did you get a Ford Sedan??" opinion. Ford makes good trucks, but not good sedans. That's their reputation. That's where most conversations go. People ask me about maintenance issues and are surprised that I've only had to change the oil, brake pads, and windshield wipers and tires. People seem to think that Ford sedans fall apart if you look at them funny.
    - kipchak 5y ago
      My hunch is the memory of bad American sedans from the late 90s to early 2000s has either stuck around longer. I think now much less of a difference now but back in the day recall seeing more Sentra/Civic/Corollas on the road into old age than domestics. I think recently it's been a bit of a chicken and the egg problem for ford and sedans, they don't sell enough volume to justify redesigns and they aren't redesigned so they're not (at least perceived as) terribly competitive.
      - anikom15 5y ago
        It’s far older than that. The reputation existed since at least the Pinto fires.
        bsanr2 5y ago
        People judge by how many older cars are still on the road. I see Tauruses on occasion, but not as often as I see Accords and Camrys.
        kipchak 5y ago
TMWNN 5y ago
Milner08's comment isn't saying that Ford isn't an American company. It's saying that in Britain, Ford was so accepted for so long that it became "one of our own". That's a compliment. See my other comment.

by fhood 5y ago

Oof, GM sucks and Ford isn't really even American. Talk about a one two punch. Not that I disagree with the main point, but jeez leave us with something wouldya?

dragontamer 5y ago

As an American, I recognize that the Ford cars popular across the pond are a very, very different set of vehicles than the Ford trucks popular around here. The Ford Focus (including the RS version) is popular in Europe. However, as an owner of such a car, I only get raised eyebrows around here. In contrast, F150 / Trucks / etc. etc. are "real Ford Cars". No one trusts Ford Sedans over here for some reason, despite their popularity in Europe (which is why Ford stopped selling Sedans in the USA, and are instead opting for a $20k truck: the Maverick, over continuing their efficient line of sedans)

bsanr2 5y ago
>No one trusts Ford Sedans over here for some reason From my personal observation: poor maintenance and safety ratings compared to alts. Driving is dangerous in America and you have to have a car to participate economically in most of the country. Also, the used market here is huge and not a lot of 90s/2000s Ford sedans made it this far. Anyone who knows better, feel free to correct.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  > poor maintenance and safety ratings compared to alts Ford Focus beat the pants off of Honda Fit, roughly in the same category of weight (though the Honda Fit is quite a bit cheaper MSRP, the Ford Focus was frequently on sale at quite low prices). But people _believe_ the Honda Fit has superior maintenance and safety ratings. So that's that. Reputation is more important than facts.
  - bsanr2 5y ago
    What? The Focus is a compact car and competes with the Civic. They've traded rankings over the years, but the Focus isn't a clear winner. The Fit is in a different class (a subcompact that competed with the Ford Fiesta), and in any case, I was thinking of the Corolla - which is far-and-away better-rated - and of larger sedans.
foobarian 5y ago
I don't think the problem with sedans was trust, so much as they were being outsold by SUVs and crossovers to the point it didn't make sense for Ford to keep making them. I'm still upset they cut the Focus/Fiesta ST models. You will have to pry mine from my cold dead fingers :-)
rootusrootus 5y ago
> which is why Ford stopped selling Sedans in the USA More accurately, sedans from any manufacturer have been in steady decline for years. So only the biggest names are still selling enough to justify continued development. Everyone else is switching to CUVs because that's what customers want today. Can't blame them, typical CUVs now have basically the same fuel efficiency as a sedan but a little more utility and a bit easier to live with (slide in/out without up/down).
- Retric 5y ago
  Some of that is just bouncing back from how low sedans became. A Ford land boat from the late 60’s and early 70’s didn’t require much getting up/down either.
- kube-system 5y ago
  I think CUVs are getting better gas mileage as a result of the competitiveness of the market, but I don’t think CUV buyers really care about gas mileage. They were selling well before they got good gas mileage, and SUVs sold good in the US too with abysmal gas mileage. Hybrid sedans still blow any CUV out of the water on MPGs, and are often cheaper than non-hybrid CUV counterparts. People just like the configuration.
  - aaronbeekay 5y ago
    Agree with this broadly, but also CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) standards in the US mean that it likely was not possible for Ford to eliminate sedans before CUV fuel economy increased to a comparable point. (I work at Ford, but in a role that doesn’t give me insight into internal vehicle program strategy.)
2trill2spill 5y ago
> The Ford Focus (including the RS version) is popular in Europe. However, as an owner of such a car, I only get raised eyebrows around here Really? I own a 2017 Ford Focus RS in the states and I get a lot of compliments on my car. Most people don't even realize its a focus.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  At least in my area, everyone recognizes the blue oval. Most people I talk to about my car is of the "Why did you get a Ford Sedan??" opinion. Ford makes good trucks, but not good sedans. That's their reputation. That's where most conversations go. People ask me about maintenance issues and are surprised that I've only had to change the oil, brake pads, and windshield wipers and tires. People seem to think that Ford sedans fall apart if you look at them funny.
  - kipchak 5y ago
    My hunch is the memory of bad American sedans from the late 90s to early 2000s has either stuck around longer. I think now much less of a difference now but back in the day recall seeing more Sentra/Civic/Corollas on the road into old age than domestics. I think recently it's been a bit of a chicken and the egg problem for ford and sedans, they don't sell enough volume to justify redesigns and they aren't redesigned so they're not (at least perceived as) terribly competitive.
    - anikom15 5y ago
      It’s far older than that. The reputation existed since at least the Pinto fires.
      - bsanr2 5y ago
        People judge by how many older cars are still on the road. I see Tauruses on occasion, but not as often as I see Accords and Camrys.
      - kipchak 5y ago

TMWNN 5y ago

Milner08's comment isn't saying that Ford isn't an American company. It's saying that in Britain, Ford was so accepted for so long that it became "one of our own". That's a compliment. See my other comment.