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What were the conditions to withdraw? My understanding is that the terms of the Doha agreement were 1) Taliban stops attacking US troops, 2) Taliban doesn’t she

by rrss 5y ago

What were the conditions to withdraw? My understanding is that the terms of the Doha agreement were 1) Taliban stops attacking US troops, 2) Taliban doesn’t shelter al Qaeda, and 3) US military leaves Afghanistan by May 2021. Were there other conditions that have not been met? The Afghan government wasn’t even a party to the Doha agreement.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
So I’m confused, are you saying that a secret overnight withdrawal of Bagram, this new Saigon situation and imagery, people clinging to transport planes, in the US leaving 10,000 to 20,000 American citizens in a now hostile country happened under Trump? It basically doesn’t matter what the plan was. Good or bad, it wasn’t executed by the new guy. Instead, seemingly no plan was used and here we are. 20 years and trillions of dollars, effectively wiped out in one month. Not even getting into the arms an ordinance, Humvees and MRAPs, helicopters and drones we left that are now Taliban owned. It’s not all bad, I’m sure we left a stack of 4473 forms so there would be background checks for the hundred thousand or more actual assault rifles we just handed out. Biden literally celebrated this was his plan and it our trained allies had everything under control: https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1427261422208233478 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1427261422208233478
- rrss 5y ago
  I asked a question, which you did not answer. I did not say anything about whose fault it is. EDIT: FWIW, I think it is manifestly obvious that Biden and the current administration is responsible for the current situation. No need to convince me of that.
  - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
    Sorry, I didn't understand how questions you asked were relevant, no offense. They never came to fruition under Trump. IIRC, his timetable had big mile markers for major withdraws in June, he was out in Jan. While not ignoring you with a "At this point what difference does it make?" esp when that was said, the answer was actually "all the difference". In this case, I thought you were asking rhetorically. My point was it is beyond-the-pale to blame Trump's plan that wasn't followed by Biden, IC, and Bureaucracy failures here. Biden spent a year saying this was his choice and his plan. Him and his press secretary are on vacation this week, so we'll have to wait and see if that's still the case. I think a difference I'm seeing in my head is that during Vietnam, we were pushing UH-1 Hueys helos into the ocean to make room for evacuees on our carriers. In these linked videos, we're leaving people so desperate they clung to a C-117 and are almost certainly all dead now, and leaving 10-20k American citizens behind at this moment. I know literacy and formal education among Afgans is low (but was getting a lot higher), but you have to understand you can't hang on to C-117 or sit on the landing gear panel for a minute let alone hours. The cruise speed for a C-117 is ~200 knots (200-250mph depending on model). Not to mention that the young generation in Afghanistan, up to 25 years old or so, have never known anything but US protections. That just changed in 1 week. To ignore all that and instead use your platform to "blame Trump", Liz, and USA Today, that's disgusting to me. Vile and deceitful, even considering the last 5 years of reality bending nonsense for political effect.
throwawaysea 5y ago
Here's the actual agreement: https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-F... Personally I think making a deal with the Taliban was a bad idea. Leaving the Afghan government out of those discussions was a mistake that demoralized the Afghan forces according to our former ambassador (https://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-ambassador-afghanistan-blames-trump-taliban-resurgence-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-ambassador-afghani...). But, it does seem like the conditions of this deal were not met and there wouldn't have been an exit on the May timeline, since the Taliban still continues to work with Al Qaeda.

by rrss 5y ago

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago

So I’m confused, are you saying that a secret overnight withdrawal of Bagram, this new Saigon situation and imagery, people clinging to transport planes, in the US leaving 10,000 to 20,000 American citizens in a now hostile country happened under Trump? It basically doesn’t matter what the plan was. Good or bad, it wasn’t executed by the new guy. Instead, seemingly no plan was used and here we are. 20 years and trillions of dollars, effectively wiped out in one month. Not even getting into the arms an ordinance, Humvees and MRAPs, helicopters and drones we left that are now Taliban owned. It’s not all bad, I’m sure we left a stack of 4473 forms so there would be background checks for the hundred thousand or more actual assault rifles we just handed out. Biden literally celebrated this was his plan and it our trained allies had everything under control: https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1427261422208233478 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1427261422208233478

rrss 5y ago
I asked a question, which you did not answer. I did not say anything about whose fault it is. EDIT: FWIW, I think it is manifestly obvious that Biden and the current administration is responsible for the current situation. No need to convince me of that.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  Sorry, I didn't understand how questions you asked were relevant, no offense. They never came to fruition under Trump. IIRC, his timetable had big mile markers for major withdraws in June, he was out in Jan. While not ignoring you with a "At this point what difference does it make?" esp when that was said, the answer was actually "all the difference". In this case, I thought you were asking rhetorically. My point was it is beyond-the-pale to blame Trump's plan that wasn't followed by Biden, IC, and Bureaucracy failures here. Biden spent a year saying this was his choice and his plan. Him and his press secretary are on vacation this week, so we'll have to wait and see if that's still the case. I think a difference I'm seeing in my head is that during Vietnam, we were pushing UH-1 Hueys helos into the ocean to make room for evacuees on our carriers. In these linked videos, we're leaving people so desperate they clung to a C-117 and are almost certainly all dead now, and leaving 10-20k American citizens behind at this moment. I know literacy and formal education among Afgans is low (but was getting a lot higher), but you have to understand you can't hang on to C-117 or sit on the landing gear panel for a minute let alone hours. The cruise speed for a C-117 is ~200 knots (200-250mph depending on model). Not to mention that the young generation in Afghanistan, up to 25 years old or so, have never known anything but US protections. That just changed in 1 week. To ignore all that and instead use your platform to "blame Trump", Liz, and USA Today, that's disgusting to me. Vile and deceitful, even considering the last 5 years of reality bending nonsense for political effect.

throwawaysea 5y ago

Here's the actual agreement: https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-F... Personally I think making a deal with the Taliban was a bad idea. Leaving the Afghan government out of those discussions was a mistake that demoralized the Afghan forces according to our former ambassador (https://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-ambassador-afghanistan-blames-trump-taliban-resurgence-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-ambassador-afghani...). But, it does seem like the conditions of this deal were not met and there wouldn't have been an exit on the May timeline, since the Taliban still continues to work with Al Qaeda.