5 ms·

I'm sure I don't understand a lot of the ins and outs of the situation in Kabul, but it does seem weird that they pulled out all the military first and left ove

I'm sure I don't understand a lot of the ins and outs of the situation in Kabul, but it does seem weird that they pulled out all the military first and left over a thousand embassy staff there. And now they've sent some different military back in to get them. I mean sure, the speed of the takeover seems like it took people by surprise, but surely the civilians and non-combat military gradually leave and the combat troops are last out providing security, even if the Taliban advance is slow? Edit: Or were they planning to leave the embassy open?

MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
Also why did choose to evacuate from Hamid Karzai International Airport? Bagram would have been easier to defend.
- DanTheManPR 5y ago
  Bagram is about 25miles outside of Kabul, though.
- nanis 5y ago
  Because they abandoned Bagram in the worst way possible: > US left Bagram without telling new commander: Afghan officials > Before the Afghan army could take control of airfield, looters ransack barracks and rummage through storage tents. That there sent a strong signal to both the Taliban and the ANA. [1]: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/5/us-left-bagram-airfield-without-notice-afghan-officials-say https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/5/us-left-bagram-airfi...
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  We already left Bagram. We did so overnight and it was a surprise to the Afghan forces we trained and left in charge there. EDIT: And last month… people were pulling the wiring for copper among other savage https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/dollar800b-scrapyard-bagram-air-base-pillaged-after-us-troops-abandon-it/ss-AALQgFr https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/dollar800b-scrapyard-ba...
saberdancer 5y ago
If you don't expect Afganistan to fall to Taliban, why would you pull out? I'm baffled that they made this big of a mistake, but if you operate from the assumption that ANA does not fold, you have no reason to pull out your embassy personnel or civilians in general.
- jacksonkmarley 5y ago
  That's valid, I guess at this point with things as they are it's hard to imagine thinking the Taliban wouldn't be able to take over.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  They very much expected Afghanistan to fall. they just thought it would take a few months.
  - throwawaysea 5y ago
    I don't think many people expected Afghanistan to fall. A month ago in a press conference Biden said he was confident that the Afghan government and military could defend against the Taliban successfully. Was he lying to the American public if it was so obvious? I personally think he was just incredibly ignorant and incompetent, rather than lying out of malice. OTHER people expected that Biden's strategy would fail. Military generals and the bipartisan Afghan study group report suggested a slower withdrawal and maintaining a limited force to perform counter terrorism and provide a safety net. But Biden decided to just plow ahead, presumably to be able to symbolically claim that he pulled out before the 20th anniversary of 9/11.
    - wonderwonder 5y ago
      This is from June 23, with the US absolutely expecting the Taliban to win, just for it to take a little while longer. https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghan-government-could-collapse-six-months-after-u-s-withdrawal-new-intelligence-assessment-says-11624466743?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghan-government-could-collaps...
rce 5y ago
The Pentagon had been warning for months that evacuating the embassy would be a logistical challenge (it's one of the largest in the world) and it would be better to start sooner than later. The State Department was worried about the signal that would send - i.e. that the U.S. did not trust that the Afghanistan military could provide adequate security.
- weimerica 5y ago
  I suppose that’s the best metaphor for the war. Political decisions creating military problems.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    The requirements military action serves are always political. As with software, yes, things would be easier if the requirements were ignored for the sake of implementation, but that misses the whole point of the activity.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  Would hate to insult the Afghanistan military on the way out the door as we condemned them to a fight we were 100% confident they would lose. To risk US lives on not wanting to be insulting is unforgivable.
  - flerchin 5y ago
    They didn't fight.
    - wonderwonder 5y ago
      Exactly, so we gained nothing and lost so much more. Why would they fight? We are publicly stating we expect the Taliban to win in a few months. Why fight and die so that the people abandoning you can have an easy time of it? If I was an Afghan soldier I can already see the writing on the wall. Just blend into the crowd and welcome the regime change, its all you can do.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
The takeover was pretty much planned. This is the expected result. The only "surprise" here is that the Taliban stayed on schedule while we delayed our withdrawal for several months for reasons that nobody seems to know.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  Why do people keep saying this was inevitable or that the takeover was planned? Biden literally said in the July 8th press conference that he's confident Afghanistan will remain under control of the Ghani government and that their military is fully capable of managing the Taliban. This was not the expected result. No one would feel good planning to return a nation to the control of a terrorist organization that has a long past history and very recent history of human rights abuses. This was a surprise to the Biden administration. They admitted it (https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-afghanistan-taliban-5934ef05b0094d0189b5d900d2380179 https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-afghanistan-taliban-593...). Biden literally said there would be no airlifts off embassy roofs like in Saigon (https://www.newsweek.com/clip-biden-saying-people-wont-lifted-off-embassy-roof-afghanistan-resurfaces-just-that-happens-1619517 https://www.newsweek.com/clip-biden-saying-people-wont-lifte...). But we were forced to do that and we still haven't evacuated all the Americans. None of this was planned or expected - it's just a complete failure of leadership.
99_00 5y ago
https://twitter.com/BryanDeanWright/status/1426710333264179214 https://twitter.com/BryanDeanWright/status/14267103332641792... US leadership thought it was impossible for the Taliban to take Kabul.
- rdtsc 5y ago
  Oh wow, that's terrible. They've worked alongside them for so long and they couldn't predict this kind of an outcome? I guess they could have expected them to fall eventually, but when talking to the press they couldn't really articulate it well enough to avoid projecting a lack of confidence in ANA.
  - 99_00 5y ago
    > I guess they could have expected them to fall eventually, but when talking to the press they couldn't really articulate it well enough to avoid projecting a lack of confidence in ANA. I thought he did a good job articulating that, in the way politicians and diplomatic types do.

MrBuddyCasino 5y ago

Also why did choose to evacuate from Hamid Karzai International Airport? Bagram would have been easier to defend.

DanTheManPR 5y ago
Bagram is about 25miles outside of Kabul, though.
nanis 5y ago
Because they abandoned Bagram in the worst way possible: > US left Bagram without telling new commander: Afghan officials > Before the Afghan army could take control of airfield, looters ransack barracks and rummage through storage tents. That there sent a strong signal to both the Taliban and the ANA. [1]: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/5/us-left-bagram-airfield-without-notice-afghan-officials-say https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/5/us-left-bagram-airfi...
SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
We already left Bagram. We did so overnight and it was a surprise to the Afghan forces we trained and left in charge there. EDIT: And last month… people were pulling the wiring for copper among other savage https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/dollar800b-scrapyard-bagram-air-base-pillaged-after-us-troops-abandon-it/ss-AALQgFr https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/dollar800b-scrapyard-ba...

saberdancer 5y ago

If you don't expect Afganistan to fall to Taliban, why would you pull out? I'm baffled that they made this big of a mistake, but if you operate from the assumption that ANA does not fold, you have no reason to pull out your embassy personnel or civilians in general.

jacksonkmarley 5y ago
That's valid, I guess at this point with things as they are it's hard to imagine thinking the Taliban wouldn't be able to take over.
wonderwonder 5y ago
They very much expected Afghanistan to fall. they just thought it would take a few months.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  I don't think many people expected Afghanistan to fall. A month ago in a press conference Biden said he was confident that the Afghan government and military could defend against the Taliban successfully. Was he lying to the American public if it was so obvious? I personally think he was just incredibly ignorant and incompetent, rather than lying out of malice. OTHER people expected that Biden's strategy would fail. Military generals and the bipartisan Afghan study group report suggested a slower withdrawal and maintaining a limited force to perform counter terrorism and provide a safety net. But Biden decided to just plow ahead, presumably to be able to symbolically claim that he pulled out before the 20th anniversary of 9/11.
  - wonderwonder 5y ago
    This is from June 23, with the US absolutely expecting the Taliban to win, just for it to take a little while longer. https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghan-government-could-collapse-six-months-after-u-s-withdrawal-new-intelligence-assessment-says-11624466743?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghan-government-could-collaps...

rce 5y ago

The Pentagon had been warning for months that evacuating the embassy would be a logistical challenge (it's one of the largest in the world) and it would be better to start sooner than later. The State Department was worried about the signal that would send - i.e. that the U.S. did not trust that the Afghanistan military could provide adequate security.

weimerica 5y ago
I suppose that’s the best metaphor for the war. Political decisions creating military problems.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  The requirements military action serves are always political. As with software, yes, things would be easier if the requirements were ignored for the sake of implementation, but that misses the whole point of the activity.
wonderwonder 5y ago
Would hate to insult the Afghanistan military on the way out the door as we condemned them to a fight we were 100% confident they would lose. To risk US lives on not wanting to be insulting is unforgivable.
- flerchin 5y ago
  They didn't fight.
  - wonderwonder 5y ago
    Exactly, so we gained nothing and lost so much more. Why would they fight? We are publicly stating we expect the Taliban to win in a few months. Why fight and die so that the people abandoning you can have an easy time of it? If I was an Afghan soldier I can already see the writing on the wall. Just blend into the crowd and welcome the regime change, its all you can do.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

The takeover was pretty much planned. This is the expected result. The only "surprise" here is that the Taliban stayed on schedule while we delayed our withdrawal for several months for reasons that nobody seems to know.

throwawaysea 5y ago
Why do people keep saying this was inevitable or that the takeover was planned? Biden literally said in the July 8th press conference that he's confident Afghanistan will remain under control of the Ghani government and that their military is fully capable of managing the Taliban. This was not the expected result. No one would feel good planning to return a nation to the control of a terrorist organization that has a long past history and very recent history of human rights abuses. This was a surprise to the Biden administration. They admitted it (https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-afghanistan-taliban-5934ef05b0094d0189b5d900d2380179 https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-afghanistan-taliban-593...). Biden literally said there would be no airlifts off embassy roofs like in Saigon (https://www.newsweek.com/clip-biden-saying-people-wont-lifted-off-embassy-roof-afghanistan-resurfaces-just-that-happens-1619517 https://www.newsweek.com/clip-biden-saying-people-wont-lifte...). But we were forced to do that and we still haven't evacuated all the Americans. None of this was planned or expected - it's just a complete failure of leadership.

99_00 5y ago

https://twitter.com/BryanDeanWright/status/1426710333264179214 https://twitter.com/BryanDeanWright/status/14267103332641792... US leadership thought it was impossible for the Taliban to take Kabul.

rdtsc 5y ago
Oh wow, that's terrible. They've worked alongside them for so long and they couldn't predict this kind of an outcome? I guess they could have expected them to fall eventually, but when talking to the press they couldn't really articulate it well enough to avoid projecting a lack of confidence in ANA.
- 99_00 5y ago
  > I guess they could have expected them to fall eventually, but when talking to the press they couldn't really articulate it well enough to avoid projecting a lack of confidence in ANA. I thought he did a good job articulating that, in the way politicians and diplomatic types do.