3 ms·

> You never save money building it yourself I agree, if what you want is a standard chair or table. But its common that I will want some piece of furniture tha

by jefftk 5y ago

> You never save money building it yourself I agree, if what you want is a standard chair or table. But its common that I will want some piece of furniture that exactly fits some space or is otherwise unusual. For example, shelves that exactly fit my rooms. It does help that I have somewhat low standards for appearance, and am quite content building things out of cheap wood.

jjk166 5y ago
You'd still probably be better off hiring a carpenter who already has the tools than doing it yourself. They can amortize the fixed costs over hundreds of projects.
- jefftk 5y ago
  Hiring a carpenter is very expensive. The cost of tools is tiny compared to the cost of their labor. (I'm assuming that we're talking about saving money in a way that counts your own time doing something you enjoy as free.)
  - rytis 5y ago
    Exactly that. Top brand tools are expensive, but lower mid range these days is surprisingly cheap, and even for one off projects might "pay for itself". And they get cheaper. Labor costs are increasing. Obviously this comes with few caveats: a) you have to enjoy what you do, so the labor is free and you treat the time as me-time and b) you actually know what you're doing... running in to a disaster and then getting someone to fix it can be very-very expensive :)
  - jjk166 5y ago
    A carpenter charges like $50/hr. A tablesaw alone would likely set you back more than the labor for some simple shelves. Then they can get better deals on material, they do higher quality work, and they do all the parts that aren't fun, like cleaning up at the end. Also your time still has value even if you enjoy what you're doing. You could be doing other hobbies you enjoy more, or other aspects of the same hobby, or making money so that you could afford other opportunities instead. You may enjoy woodworking enough that you're willing to forego the value of that time to pursue it, but that doesn't make it any more economical.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      Over your lifetime, you might need 5 or 6 sets of shelves. Buy yourself a porta-tablesaw for about $400-$500 (or cheaper on craiglist etc), learn to use it, and chances are that somewhere in the middle of your life, the cost equation will have flipped in your favor.
      - Too 5y ago
        You don't need a tablesaw to make some shelves. You'd get very far with a hand held jigsaw. Can be stored in a drawer and costs around 100€ for a decent brand. You just need to be a lot more careful to get things perfectly straight, compared to a circular saw.
      - derefr 5y ago
        That values storage costs at zero. Certainly not true if you live in a duplex, let alone an apartment!
        PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        Absolutely fair point. That's definitely a very different situation. Probably one of the reasons I doubt I could ever live in such a situation, at least until I'm 75 or so :)
    - jefftk 5y ago
      With your estimates on payback time, I think you might be underestimating how many things I've built around the house ;) Some examples: * At least five sets of shelves, the biggest of which was https://www.jefftk.com/p/built-in-shelves https://www.jefftk.com/p/built-in-shelves * Piano stand, so I could put my keyboard at just the right height on top of a wagon * Folding monitor/TV, that is pretty sturdy and well protected when it's away: https://www.jefftk.com/p/folding-couch-monitor https://www.jefftk.com/p/folding-couch-monitor I expect to keep doing this, and most of my tools aren't even halfway through their useful life. There are some downsides, and you're right that a professional would make a lot of these things look better, but there are also serious downsides to working with a professional aside from the cost. It can be quite hard to get them to come when you want, they may not build exactly what you had in mind since communication is hard, and some people will cheat you (https://www.jefftk.com/p/brendin-lange-is-a-scammer https://www.jefftk.com/p/brendin-lange-is-a-scammer)

by jefftk 5y ago

jjk166 5y ago

You'd still probably be better off hiring a carpenter who already has the tools than doing it yourself. They can amortize the fixed costs over hundreds of projects.

jefftk 5y ago
Hiring a carpenter is very expensive. The cost of tools is tiny compared to the cost of their labor. (I'm assuming that we're talking about saving money in a way that counts your own time doing something you enjoy as free.)
- rytis 5y ago
  Exactly that. Top brand tools are expensive, but lower mid range these days is surprisingly cheap, and even for one off projects might "pay for itself". And they get cheaper. Labor costs are increasing. Obviously this comes with few caveats: a) you have to enjoy what you do, so the labor is free and you treat the time as me-time and b) you actually know what you're doing... running in to a disaster and then getting someone to fix it can be very-very expensive :)
- jjk166 5y ago
  A carpenter charges like $50/hr. A tablesaw alone would likely set you back more than the labor for some simple shelves. Then they can get better deals on material, they do higher quality work, and they do all the parts that aren't fun, like cleaning up at the end. Also your time still has value even if you enjoy what you're doing. You could be doing other hobbies you enjoy more, or other aspects of the same hobby, or making money so that you could afford other opportunities instead. You may enjoy woodworking enough that you're willing to forego the value of that time to pursue it, but that doesn't make it any more economical.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Over your lifetime, you might need 5 or 6 sets of shelves. Buy yourself a porta-tablesaw for about $400-$500 (or cheaper on craiglist etc), learn to use it, and chances are that somewhere in the middle of your life, the cost equation will have flipped in your favor.
    - Too 5y ago
      You don't need a tablesaw to make some shelves. You'd get very far with a hand held jigsaw. Can be stored in a drawer and costs around 100€ for a decent brand. You just need to be a lot more careful to get things perfectly straight, compared to a circular saw.
    - derefr 5y ago
      That values storage costs at zero. Certainly not true if you live in a duplex, let alone an apartment!
      - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        Absolutely fair point. That's definitely a very different situation. Probably one of the reasons I doubt I could ever live in such a situation, at least until I'm 75 or so :)
  - jefftk 5y ago
    With your estimates on payback time, I think you might be underestimating how many things I've built around the house ;) Some examples: * At least five sets of shelves, the biggest of which was https://www.jefftk.com/p/built-in-shelves https://www.jefftk.com/p/built-in-shelves * Piano stand, so I could put my keyboard at just the right height on top of a wagon * Folding monitor/TV, that is pretty sturdy and well protected when it's away: https://www.jefftk.com/p/folding-couch-monitor https://www.jefftk.com/p/folding-couch-monitor I expect to keep doing this, and most of my tools aren't even halfway through their useful life. There are some downsides, and you're right that a professional would make a lot of these things look better, but there are also serious downsides to working with a professional aside from the cost. It can be quite hard to get them to come when you want, they may not build exactly what you had in mind since communication is hard, and some people will cheat you (https://www.jefftk.com/p/brendin-lange-is-a-scammer https://www.jefftk.com/p/brendin-lange-is-a-scammer)