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I didn’t see it mentioned that USA trained and armed the Taliban when they were waging their jihad against the Soviets.

Leparamour 5y ago
It's the modern BBC after all. Did you expect unbiased reporting?
torstenvl 5y ago
That's because such a claim is patently and indisputably false (unless you think the Taliban have time travel capability).
- sedan_baklazhan 5y ago
  Not entirely false. Taliban was initially formed by Pushtun students of Pakistan Medrese. By coincidence, they were the core of resistance to the Soviet army. Mohammed Omar, founder of Taliban, was a veteran of Anti-Soviet war. So, not entirely a time travel case.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - torstenvl 5y ago
    Yes, entirely false. The fact that a veteran of some group later did something else doesn't mean everyone involved in the first venture contributed to the second. That's like saying Peter Thiel founded Tesla. It's so obviously false that anyone pushing that narrative is presumptively dishonest.
- Leparamour 5y ago
  How's the weather in Langley?
cyber_kinetist 5y ago
From Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Background https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Background > After the Soviet Union intervened and occupied Afghanistan in 1979, Islamic mujahideen fighters engaged in war with those Soviet forces. > Pakistan's President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq feared that the Soviets were planning to also invade Balochistan, Pakistan, so he sent Akhtar Abdur Rahman to Saudi Arabia to garner support for the Afghan resistance against Soviet occupation forces. A while later, the US CIA and Saudi Arabian General Intelligence Directorate (GID) funnelled funding and equipment through the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence Agency (ISI) to the Afghan mujahideen.[112] > About 90,000 Afghans, including Mohammed Omar, were trained by Pakistan's ISI during the 1980s.[112] British professor Carole Hillenbrand concluded that the Taliban have arisen from those US-Saudi-Pakistan-supported mujahideen: "The West helped the Taliban to fight the Soviet takeover of Afghanistan".[113] Nearly all of the Taliban's original leadership previously fought in the Soviet-Afghan War for either the Hezb-i Islami Khalis or Harakat-i Inqilab-e Islami factions of the Mujahideen.
- 1cvmask 5y ago
  Actually according to recently declassified documents (and comments by Brezinski in the 1990s) the “rebels” were armed and created before the Soviet invasion by the CIA under Carter. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/07/history-trump-cia-was-arming-afghan-rebels-before-soviets-invaded/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/07/history-tr...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    So it is a fact that USA created the Taliban. Nice.
    - nate_meurer 5y ago
      There are many facts you can cherry pick to suit whatever narrative you want to sell. Why ignore the support and funding from Sunnis across the Middle East, particularly Saudi Arabia? Why ignore the founding of early Taliban madrassas by Jamiat Ulema-e Islam in Pakistan? There's plenty of blame to go around, and no reason to be selective unless you have an agenda.
542354234235 5y ago
The Taliban didn’t exist during the Soviet war. The Pakistani ISI, and the US by proxy, trained and equipped the Afghan mujahedeen fighters to fight the Soviets. Then, once the Soviets pulled out, multiple former fighters, notably the Haqqani family, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Ahmad Shah Massoud, and Abdul Rashid Dostum, created their own militias and began fighting over control of various parts of the country. Pakistani ISI backed Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the “Butcher of Kabul”, in an effort to help install a Pakistani friendly government in Afghanistan, but backed off after pressure from the US. The Taliban was then formed in southern Afghanistan by Mullah Mohammad Omar, also from former Soviet fighters, and quickly conquered significant territory from the other warring factions. The Pakistani ISI backed them, but covertly to avoid pushback from the US. The Haqqanis and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar became allies, with the Taliban controlling the majority of Afghanistan, while Ahmad Shah Massoud and his “Northern Alliance” controlled the north. The US under Clinton was pretty wishy washy about Afghanistan at that point, mostly just wanting the fighting to end. But they did work with Massoud and the Northern Alliance in order to attempt to target Osama Bin Laden after the 1998 embassy bombings. Under Bush, the CIA was in the process of beginning a covert operation to support the Northern Alliance against the Taliban, but then Massoud was assassinated by the Taliban on September 9th, 2001, and two days later was 9/11.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  Funny how you do not mention the CIA link through the ISI.
  - 542354234235 5y ago
    I thought that was clear from me saying “The Pakistani ISI, and the US by proxy,”. If it wasn’t clear, the US (specifically the CIA) absolutely provided money and equipment to the ISI (basically the Pakistan version of the FBI and CIA for anyone that doesn’t know) for them to use to train and equip mujahedeen fighters. But the ISI was not run by the CIA. Pakistan had, and still has, their own agenda and priorities that do not align with the US. So if you are implying that the ISI funding of the Taliban must have actually been the CIA, that is not supported by the evidence.

It's the modern BBC after all. Did you expect unbiased reporting?

That's because such a claim is patently and indisputably false (unless you think the Taliban have time travel capability).

sedan_baklazhan 5y ago
Not entirely false. Taliban was initially formed by Pushtun students of Pakistan Medrese. By coincidence, they were the core of resistance to the Soviet army. Mohammed Omar, founder of Taliban, was a veteran of Anti-Soviet war. So, not entirely a time travel case.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- torstenvl 5y ago
  Yes, entirely false. The fact that a veteran of some group later did something else doesn't mean everyone involved in the first venture contributed to the second. That's like saying Peter Thiel founded Tesla. It's so obviously false that anyone pushing that narrative is presumptively dishonest.
Leparamour 5y ago
How's the weather in Langley?

cyber_kinetist 5y ago

From Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Background https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Background > After the Soviet Union intervened and occupied Afghanistan in 1979, Islamic mujahideen fighters engaged in war with those Soviet forces. > Pakistan's President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq feared that the Soviets were planning to also invade Balochistan, Pakistan, so he sent Akhtar Abdur Rahman to Saudi Arabia to garner support for the Afghan resistance against Soviet occupation forces. A while later, the US CIA and Saudi Arabian General Intelligence Directorate (GID) funnelled funding and equipment through the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence Agency (ISI) to the Afghan mujahideen.[112] > About 90,000 Afghans, including Mohammed Omar, were trained by Pakistan's ISI during the 1980s.[112] British professor Carole Hillenbrand concluded that the Taliban have arisen from those US-Saudi-Pakistan-supported mujahideen: "The West helped the Taliban to fight the Soviet takeover of Afghanistan".[113] Nearly all of the Taliban's original leadership previously fought in the Soviet-Afghan War for either the Hezb-i Islami Khalis or Harakat-i Inqilab-e Islami factions of the Mujahideen.

1cvmask 5y ago
Actually according to recently declassified documents (and comments by Brezinski in the 1990s) the “rebels” were armed and created before the Soviet invasion by the CIA under Carter. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/07/history-trump-cia-was-arming-afghan-rebels-before-soviets-invaded/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/07/history-tr...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  So it is a fact that USA created the Taliban. Nice.
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    There are many facts you can cherry pick to suit whatever narrative you want to sell. Why ignore the support and funding from Sunnis across the Middle East, particularly Saudi Arabia? Why ignore the founding of early Taliban madrassas by Jamiat Ulema-e Islam in Pakistan? There's plenty of blame to go around, and no reason to be selective unless you have an agenda.

542354234235 5y ago

The Taliban didn’t exist during the Soviet war. The Pakistani ISI, and the US by proxy, trained and equipped the Afghan mujahedeen fighters to fight the Soviets. Then, once the Soviets pulled out, multiple former fighters, notably the Haqqani family, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Ahmad Shah Massoud, and Abdul Rashid Dostum, created their own militias and began fighting over control of various parts of the country. Pakistani ISI backed Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the “Butcher of Kabul”, in an effort to help install a Pakistani friendly government in Afghanistan, but backed off after pressure from the US. The Taliban was then formed in southern Afghanistan by Mullah Mohammad Omar, also from former Soviet fighters, and quickly conquered significant territory from the other warring factions. The Pakistani ISI backed them, but covertly to avoid pushback from the US. The Haqqanis and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar became allies, with the Taliban controlling the majority of Afghanistan, while Ahmad Shah Massoud and his “Northern Alliance” controlled the north. The US under Clinton was pretty wishy washy about Afghanistan at that point, mostly just wanting the fighting to end. But they did work with Massoud and the Northern Alliance in order to attempt to target Osama Bin Laden after the 1998 embassy bombings. Under Bush, the CIA was in the process of beginning a covert operation to support the Northern Alliance against the Taliban, but then Massoud was assassinated by the Taliban on September 9th, 2001, and two days later was 9/11.

eurasiantiger 5y ago
Funny how you do not mention the CIA link through the ISI.
- 542354234235 5y ago
  I thought that was clear from me saying “The Pakistani ISI, and the US by proxy,”. If it wasn’t clear, the US (specifically the CIA) absolutely provided money and equipment to the ISI (basically the Pakistan version of the FBI and CIA for anyone that doesn’t know) for them to use to train and equip mujahedeen fighters. But the ISI was not run by the CIA. Pakistan had, and still has, their own agenda and priorities that do not align with the US. So if you are implying that the ISI funding of the Taliban must have actually been the CIA, that is not supported by the evidence.