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Buy used car instead of new one. This is easily better than buying a new electric car and it amazes me that no one advocates for it. Avoid throwaway bags, pack

Buy used car instead of new one. This is easily better than buying a new electric car and it amazes me that no one advocates for it. Avoid throwaway bags, packaging and utensils.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
samvega_ 5y ago
People are already doing it, and naturally it doesn't scale. Brand new cars are a necessary condition for the used car market. That doesn't mean it couldn't get better. But then again old cars are usually less energy efficient anyway, so who knows where to draw the line.
- jnwatson 5y ago
  It does help. As used car price increase, it makes sense to fix up previously marginal cars. Anything that reduces the production of new cars is good.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    He specifically said second hand vs new EV. The carbon footprint of an ICE vehicle is heavily weighted towards burning its fuel (and transport/extraction of that fuel). The maintenance you mention during use is actually another area where EVs save both money, energy and carbon. The carbon ratio tilts towards manufacturing as cars get better mpg, and EV have the equivalent mpg of 100+, but at the same time the total reduces since cars are on the road for about a decade on average. At a societal level a shift to EVs (but also busses, bikes etc) is clearly better, but even at a personal level, a new car with better mpg than the existing one (so especially but not exclusively an EV) will pay off for that individual's carbon footprint. So the best way to get there with market forces is predictably rising gas taxes and lowering incentives building up to a total ban. Which is what most countries are doing.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
I don't think your car suggestion makes sense, I'll try and locate some numbers to demonstrate.
dagw 5y ago
This is easily better than buying a new electric car From what I can find it is far from clear and really depends on how old/inefficient the used car is and, most importantly, how much you drive.

Buy used car instead of new one. This is easily better than buying a new electric car and it amazes me that no one advocates for it. Avoid throwaway bags, packaging and utensils.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

samvega_ 5y ago

People are already doing it, and naturally it doesn't scale. Brand new cars are a necessary condition for the used car market. That doesn't mean it couldn't get better. But then again old cars are usually less energy efficient anyway, so who knows where to draw the line.

jnwatson 5y ago
It does help. As used car price increase, it makes sense to fix up previously marginal cars. Anything that reduces the production of new cars is good.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  He specifically said second hand vs new EV. The carbon footprint of an ICE vehicle is heavily weighted towards burning its fuel (and transport/extraction of that fuel). The maintenance you mention during use is actually another area where EVs save both money, energy and carbon. The carbon ratio tilts towards manufacturing as cars get better mpg, and EV have the equivalent mpg of 100+, but at the same time the total reduces since cars are on the road for about a decade on average. At a societal level a shift to EVs (but also busses, bikes etc) is clearly better, but even at a personal level, a new car with better mpg than the existing one (so especially but not exclusively an EV) will pay off for that individual's carbon footprint. So the best way to get there with market forces is predictably rising gas taxes and lowering incentives building up to a total ban. Which is what most countries are doing.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

I don't think your car suggestion makes sense, I'll try and locate some numbers to demonstrate.

dagw 5y ago

This is easily better than buying a new electric car From what I can find it is far from clear and really depends on how old/inefficient the used car is and, most importantly, how much you drive.