4 ms·

general lesson in this, specially to westerners. don't assume what you believe in, is what everyone else believes in. the us, went to a false / wrong war with t

by dzonga 5y ago

general lesson in this, specially to westerners. don't assume what you believe in, is what everyone else believes in. the us, went to a false / wrong war with the taliban under the additional presumption that afghan natives don't wanna be under taliban rule. or they wanna practice a form of western democracy. now what's apparent is the afghan military are just abandoning their posts and returning home. and natives likewise, don't mind taliban rule, as long they're not under civil war.

ericjang 5y ago
Specifically about "natives, likewise, don't mind taliban rule". Nicholas Kristof (an American journalist with possibly pro-American biases, but one who I think has a pretty good track record of honest reporting), has pointed out that Afghani women may enjoy less rights under the new administration, and there are many who have worked for pro-Western NGOs that are fearing for their lives. I'm not sure things will "just be life as usual" for all citizens, particularly women, under Taliban rule. Source: https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/1426546421906362368?s=20 https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/1426546421906362368?s...
- luckylion 5y ago
  > for all citizens Very few things are ever what all people want, but when the overwhelming majority seems to be fine with something, it's fair to say they don't mind it. If e.g. an election is decided with a 80/20 split, the electorate "wanted that person to win", even though some didn't. On average, they do. Getting into semantic over it isn't achieving much.
  - ericjang 5y ago
    I wasn't debating semantics https://inews.co.uk/news/world/afghanistans-first-female-mayor-waiting-taliban-come-kill-her-1152127 https://inews.co.uk/news/world/afghanistans-first-female-may...
busymom0 5y ago
A while back I was listening to one of those "group analysts" on a mainstream "news" channel where they were talking about how they had perfect plans to transform the middle east for "western democracy" with regime change and installing western friendly governments. Not a single one of the "analysts" they had brought on had any experience or talked to Arabs, Persians or Afghanis. These "analysts" think all countries want the same thing which is simply not the case. I know Afghanistan isn't exactly middle east but the regime change wars were all identical. Libya is another example.
Denvercoder9 5y ago
> don't assume what you believe in, is what everyone else believes in. Likewise, don't assume you know what the natives, which aren't a homogeneous group at all, mind and don't mind.
akomtu 5y ago
Yeah, after watching this show, I came to conclusion that Taliban is a sort of conservative faction that wants to run things in a traditional way (that "sharia" law or whatever), while the US has been trying to create a progressive gov with western values. Turns out, the locals are very conservative.
tzs 5y ago
Polls at the time in Afghanistan showed around 80% support there for the US ousting the Taliban. See the links in the Wikipedia article on Afghanistan [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan
npteljes 5y ago
Looking at the pictures of people desperately wanting to leave the country, I don't think they indifference is what they feel.
- grandinteg3 5y ago
  Yeah the scenes coming out of the international airport in Kabul really demonstrate how people feel about living under Taliban rule.

by dzonga 5y ago

ericjang 5y ago

Specifically about "natives, likewise, don't mind taliban rule". Nicholas Kristof (an American journalist with possibly pro-American biases, but one who I think has a pretty good track record of honest reporting), has pointed out that Afghani women may enjoy less rights under the new administration, and there are many who have worked for pro-Western NGOs that are fearing for their lives. I'm not sure things will "just be life as usual" for all citizens, particularly women, under Taliban rule. Source: https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/1426546421906362368?s=20 https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/1426546421906362368?s...

luckylion 5y ago
> for all citizens Very few things are ever what all people want, but when the overwhelming majority seems to be fine with something, it's fair to say they don't mind it. If e.g. an election is decided with a 80/20 split, the electorate "wanted that person to win", even though some didn't. On average, they do. Getting into semantic over it isn't achieving much.
- ericjang 5y ago
  I wasn't debating semantics https://inews.co.uk/news/world/afghanistans-first-female-mayor-waiting-taliban-come-kill-her-1152127 https://inews.co.uk/news/world/afghanistans-first-female-may...

busymom0 5y ago

A while back I was listening to one of those "group analysts" on a mainstream "news" channel where they were talking about how they had perfect plans to transform the middle east for "western democracy" with regime change and installing western friendly governments. Not a single one of the "analysts" they had brought on had any experience or talked to Arabs, Persians or Afghanis. These "analysts" think all countries want the same thing which is simply not the case. I know Afghanistan isn't exactly middle east but the regime change wars were all identical. Libya is another example.

Denvercoder9 5y ago

> don't assume what you believe in, is what everyone else believes in. Likewise, don't assume you know what the natives, which aren't a homogeneous group at all, mind and don't mind.

akomtu 5y ago

Yeah, after watching this show, I came to conclusion that Taliban is a sort of conservative faction that wants to run things in a traditional way (that "sharia" law or whatever), while the US has been trying to create a progressive gov with western values. Turns out, the locals are very conservative.

tzs 5y ago

Polls at the time in Afghanistan showed around 80% support there for the US ousting the Taliban. See the links in the Wikipedia article on Afghanistan [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan

npteljes 5y ago

Looking at the pictures of people desperately wanting to leave the country, I don't think they indifference is what they feel.

grandinteg3 5y ago
Yeah the scenes coming out of the international airport in Kabul really demonstrate how people feel about living under Taliban rule.