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"Wall street is a cancer for the economy that lives on fees..." You Should Look Into Low Cost Index Funds "...for allowing people to participate in an elab

by mucle6 5y ago

"Wall street is a cancer for the economy that lives on fees..." You Should Look Into Low Cost Index Funds "...for allowing people to participate in an elaborate gambling game" I believe if you invest in a market cap weighted U.S. stock market, there has never been a 20(?) year period where you lose money on your investment adjusting for inflation. I'm sure there is another number for the global market. I think it is disingenuous to call something with a positive expected return gambling. "...and due to their influence in US politics, they have forced everyone to play the game..." This implies that having a market to buy and sell stocks is unstable and only being propped up by laws, but there are many stock markets around the world, so unless there is a large conspiracy to make investing inefficient through the use of large markets, I think we have to conclude that a stock market has some intrinsic value. "under the false premise that the stocks will always go up. Except they are not, check the European stock market that has stagnated for decades." The only free lunch in investing is diversification. Don't invest in one company, sector, or country. And if you do, don't complain when it doesn't track the rest of the market. "Companies can find investors without the stock market." Then why don't they? Aren't big bad companies only concerned with making more money? If finding investors without the stock market was more profitable, then wouldn't they? "Companies can pay dividends to their owners & employees. No need to have an additional speculation layer for fund raising and profit distribution." This assumes that their owners and employees currently have enough money to collectively fund whatever venture they're working towards. To be honest I think you already know this but I'll bite. The world can be more efficient if we let people with money and no ideas give their money to people with ideas and no money.

whatever1 5y ago
"You Should Look Into Low Cost Index Funds" - Not sure how this helps your argument. Low cost != zero cost. "I believe if you invest in a market cap weighted U.S. stock market, there has never been a 20(?) year period where you lose money on your investment adjusting for inflation. I'm sure there is another number for the global market. I think it is disingenuous to call something with a positive expected return gambling." - In your own words "Don't invest in one company, sector, or country. And if you do, don't complain when it doesn't track the rest of the market." The probability that the US is the outlier is much higher compared to the cummulative stock performance of companies from 27 european nations being the outlier. "This implies that having a market to buy and sell stocks is unstable and only being propped up by laws, but there are many stock markets around the world, so unless there is a large conspiracy to make investing inefficient through the use of large markets, I think we have to conclude that a stock market has some intrinsic value." - The value generated from stock market speculations in the EU the past 20 years is close to zero [1]. So I have to conclude that the stock market is really useless. "The only free lunch in investing is diversification. Don't invest in one company, sector, or country. And if you do, don't complain when it doesn't track the rest of the market." - Or, don't speculate at all if you are not an expert and knowing that you are taking the risk of losing everything. No reason for the almost retired mom and pop to speculate on the value of my business. I am all in for long term investing (aka buy shares from the company). The buy-sell between stock holders - buyers needs to be heavily taxed due to the risk for the wider economy that these transactions can cause. "Then why don't they? Aren't big bad companies only concerned with making more money? If finding investors without the stock market was more profitable, then wouldn't they?" - I made this year 200% from speculating on Bitcoin and 90% from speculating on the recovery of the US stock market. Of course everyone tries to benefit from the game, but the reality is that only the middlemen are making money from the transactions. For the rest of us it is a zero-sum game. Some poor folks on the other side had to pay for my gains. "This assumes that their owners and employees currently have enough money to collectively fund whatever venture they're working towards. To be honest I think you already know this but I'll bite. The world can be more efficient if we let people with money and no ideas give their money to people with ideas and no money." - If only we had a solution to this! Oh I forgot, we have already a couple: 1) Banks and 2)"Issuing more shares". There is no benefit to the company when mucle6 sells their shares to whatever1 for 10 trillion dollars. [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/sxxp?CountryCode=xx https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/sxxp?CountryCode...

by mucle6 5y ago

whatever1 5y ago

"You Should Look Into Low Cost Index Funds" - Not sure how this helps your argument. Low cost != zero cost. "I believe if you invest in a market cap weighted U.S. stock market, there has never been a 20(?) year period where you lose money on your investment adjusting for inflation. I'm sure there is another number for the global market. I think it is disingenuous to call something with a positive expected return gambling." - In your own words "Don't invest in one company, sector, or country. And if you do, don't complain when it doesn't track the rest of the market." The probability that the US is the outlier is much higher compared to the cummulative stock performance of companies from 27 european nations being the outlier. "This implies that having a market to buy and sell stocks is unstable and only being propped up by laws, but there are many stock markets around the world, so unless there is a large conspiracy to make investing inefficient through the use of large markets, I think we have to conclude that a stock market has some intrinsic value." - The value generated from stock market speculations in the EU the past 20 years is close to zero [1]. So I have to conclude that the stock market is really useless. "The only free lunch in investing is diversification. Don't invest in one company, sector, or country. And if you do, don't complain when it doesn't track the rest of the market." - Or, don't speculate at all if you are not an expert and knowing that you are taking the risk of losing everything. No reason for the almost retired mom and pop to speculate on the value of my business. I am all in for long term investing (aka buy shares from the company). The buy-sell between stock holders - buyers needs to be heavily taxed due to the risk for the wider economy that these transactions can cause. "Then why don't they? Aren't big bad companies only concerned with making more money? If finding investors without the stock market was more profitable, then wouldn't they?" - I made this year 200% from speculating on Bitcoin and 90% from speculating on the recovery of the US stock market. Of course everyone tries to benefit from the game, but the reality is that only the middlemen are making money from the transactions. For the rest of us it is a zero-sum game. Some poor folks on the other side had to pay for my gains. "This assumes that their owners and employees currently have enough money to collectively fund whatever venture they're working towards. To be honest I think you already know this but I'll bite. The world can be more efficient if we let people with money and no ideas give their money to people with ideas and no money." - If only we had a solution to this! Oh I forgot, we have already a couple: 1) Banks and 2)"Issuing more shares". There is no benefit to the company when mucle6 sells their shares to whatever1 for 10 trillion dollars. [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/sxxp?CountryCode=xx https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/sxxp?CountryCode...