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Anyone worrying about what you can regarding climate change, it's nice to stop driving etc but the big issue is fossil fuel consumption. That's in the hands of

Anyone worrying about what you can regarding climate change, it's nice to stop driving etc but the big issue is fossil fuel consumption. That's in the hands of big money. How that changes is another story but they've been clever to put the blame on domestic, urban consumers when we're a tiny minority of the polluters. Knowing that should help those keen to help out know better where to look. In the meantime, no or little meat and flying is the best you can do.

scatters 5y ago
Driving uses fossil fuels, unless you're in an electric car - and even then, depending on electricity mix.
adrianN 5y ago
Depending on how much time you're willing to invest, the best thing you can do might be joining lobbying efforts like the citizen's climate lobby: https://citizensclimatelobby.org/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/
luckylion 5y ago
Is "big money" doing it for no particular reason though? My impression is that it's mostly large enterprises that, at the end of the day, serve consumers, so consumers are ultimately deciding, and so far, very few of them care enough. Even among those who are very vocal about climate change and ask for regulation, to many, overseas vacations are more important.
kart23 5y ago
Source? At least in the US, cars make up a decent share of our carbon emissions, around 16%. Other greenhouse gases like NOx or Fluorinated gases are mostly produced by industry though. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fast-facts-transportation-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fast-facts-transportation-...
- mkskm 5y ago
  The top source of greenhouse gas emissions in California is passenger vehicles. https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/CkDmyLFljut4y3amem_3slBySxw=/0x0:2155x1366/1720x0/filters:focal(0x0:2155x1366):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9092235/next10_cgii2017_sources.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/CkDmyLFljut4y3amem_3slBySxw=... https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/8/22/16177820/california-transportation https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/8/22/1617782...
skybrian 5y ago
Collectively, consumer behavior makes a big difference, as we saw when oil prices dropped very low during the pandemic and are shooting up now. But it’s true that what an individual does makes little difference, unless you figure out how to make it scale.
chapium 5y ago
I’ve seen this posted a lot and I read it as an excuse to throw our hands up and do nothing individually. However culture matters and as we shift our behaviors as individuals, pressure builds on corporate behavior as well. Both through local politics and internal politics within the company. We do need drastic regulatory changes, but we also need as a society to put our weight into it.
epistasis 5y ago
> it's nice to stop driving etc but the big issue is fossil fuel consumption. That's in the hands of big money. Driving is the biggest source of fossil fuel consumption. Where are you getting your talking points? Think about the last time you filled up your gas tank. Let's say it's 20 gallons of gas. That's an absolutely massive massive amount of fossil fuel, if you think in terms of 5-gallon buckets. Each gallon of gas emits 20 pounds of CO2 when burned (it gets heavier because each carbon atom gets two oxygen atoms are arched to it). That's 400 pounds of CO2. Now let's compare that to meat. A pound of beef, something that lasts 2-10 meals, averages 20 pounds according to the all-in estimates that I've seen. (Note that the 400 pounds of CO2 from a tank of gas underestimates true emissions because it skips the 10%-50% extra energy for extraction transport and refinement, that gets cou United against beef). Other meats, from non-ruminants that don't emit methane from digestion, have a fraction of the carbon footprint. Run the numbers on flight, and it's about the same emissions as a single passenger gas vehicle driving that distance. Run the numbers on your fossil gas furnace fossil gas water heater, and it's about as much as a typical car. All the stuff you buy that's not directly fossil fuels? Tiny fraction of this all. Climate change will not be solved by individual action. It will be solved by collective action to change everybody's behavior. Everybody. The biggest impediment to that change is politics, and the biggest impediment to political change are the forces mobilized by big money interests. But what you are repeating here plays right into their hands, not into the changes we must make to all of society.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  First: the bigger point is that it will be systemic and collective actions which result in meaningful change. Individual mindfulness and advocacy help, but they're by no means sufficient. On fossil-fuel consumption and carbon emissions: Natural gas and coal combined exceed total petroleum usage (measured in quadrillion BTUs) for the United States. Much of the coal and gas is used in electrical generation, though also in industrial and commercial use. https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/Energy_US_2020.png https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/... It looks as if transportation net carbon emissions are slightly less than 50%: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/charts/Carbon/Carbon_2018_United-States.png https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/charts/Car... It's close enough that this is something of a niggle, but in terms of accuracy, whilst it's fair to say that transport is a major source of CO2 emissions, it's not quite the majority contributor.
akomtu 5y ago
What if every manufactured good had a nutritional label that told how much energy, oil and minerals were spent on it?

scatters 5y ago

Driving uses fossil fuels, unless you're in an electric car - and even then, depending on electricity mix.

adrianN 5y ago

Depending on how much time you're willing to invest, the best thing you can do might be joining lobbying efforts like the citizen's climate lobby: https://citizensclimatelobby.org/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/

luckylion 5y ago

Is "big money" doing it for no particular reason though? My impression is that it's mostly large enterprises that, at the end of the day, serve consumers, so consumers are ultimately deciding, and so far, very few of them care enough. Even among those who are very vocal about climate change and ask for regulation, to many, overseas vacations are more important.

kart23 5y ago

Source? At least in the US, cars make up a decent share of our carbon emissions, around 16%. Other greenhouse gases like NOx or Fluorinated gases are mostly produced by industry though. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fast-facts-transportation-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fast-facts-transportation-...

mkskm 5y ago
The top source of greenhouse gas emissions in California is passenger vehicles. https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/CkDmyLFljut4y3amem_3slBySxw=/0x0:2155x1366/1720x0/filters:focal(0x0:2155x1366):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9092235/next10_cgii2017_sources.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/CkDmyLFljut4y3amem_3slBySxw=... https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/8/22/16177820/california-transportation https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/8/22/1617782...

skybrian 5y ago

Collectively, consumer behavior makes a big difference, as we saw when oil prices dropped very low during the pandemic and are shooting up now. But it’s true that what an individual does makes little difference, unless you figure out how to make it scale.

chapium 5y ago

I’ve seen this posted a lot and I read it as an excuse to throw our hands up and do nothing individually. However culture matters and as we shift our behaviors as individuals, pressure builds on corporate behavior as well. Both through local politics and internal politics within the company. We do need drastic regulatory changes, but we also need as a society to put our weight into it.

epistasis 5y ago

> it's nice to stop driving etc but the big issue is fossil fuel consumption. That's in the hands of big money. Driving is the biggest source of fossil fuel consumption. Where are you getting your talking points? Think about the last time you filled up your gas tank. Let's say it's 20 gallons of gas. That's an absolutely massive massive amount of fossil fuel, if you think in terms of 5-gallon buckets. Each gallon of gas emits 20 pounds of CO2 when burned (it gets heavier because each carbon atom gets two oxygen atoms are arched to it). That's 400 pounds of CO2. Now let's compare that to meat. A pound of beef, something that lasts 2-10 meals, averages 20 pounds according to the all-in estimates that I've seen. (Note that the 400 pounds of CO2 from a tank of gas underestimates true emissions because it skips the 10%-50% extra energy for extraction transport and refinement, that gets cou United against beef). Other meats, from non-ruminants that don't emit methane from digestion, have a fraction of the carbon footprint. Run the numbers on flight, and it's about the same emissions as a single passenger gas vehicle driving that distance. Run the numbers on your fossil gas furnace fossil gas water heater, and it's about as much as a typical car. All the stuff you buy that's not directly fossil fuels? Tiny fraction of this all. Climate change will not be solved by individual action. It will be solved by collective action to change everybody's behavior. Everybody. The biggest impediment to that change is politics, and the biggest impediment to political change are the forces mobilized by big money interests. But what you are repeating here plays right into their hands, not into the changes we must make to all of society.

dredmorbius 5y ago
First: the bigger point is that it will be systemic and collective actions which result in meaningful change. Individual mindfulness and advocacy help, but they're by no means sufficient. On fossil-fuel consumption and carbon emissions: Natural gas and coal combined exceed total petroleum usage (measured in quadrillion BTUs) for the United States. Much of the coal and gas is used in electrical generation, though also in industrial and commercial use. https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/Energy_US_2020.png https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/... It looks as if transportation net carbon emissions are slightly less than 50%: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/charts/Carbon/Carbon_2018_United-States.png https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/charts/Car... It's close enough that this is something of a niggle, but in terms of accuracy, whilst it's fair to say that transport is a major source of CO2 emissions, it's not quite the majority contributor.

akomtu 5y ago

What if every manufactured good had a nutritional label that told how much energy, oil and minerals were spent on it?