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Easy solution for this "problem" - allow and encourage more immigration!

websites2023 5y ago
Absolutely. One of the best things about the US is that we have a culture which is adept at integrating immigrants. The US will stave off demographic collapse because of this.
DamnYuppie 5y ago
The solution is to look at our culture and systems of governance and employment and understand what can be done to enable and encourage more people having children. Bringing in more people is just a lazy fix and does nothing to fix the underlying problems.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  Why is population growth via reproduction a thing that governments should encourage? If there are problems with society, we should fix them for their own sake.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Counterpoint: The world has enough people (7.5B on track for 11B by end of century). Stop subsidizing children with pro natal policies, and pay people who choose not to have children (the three most impactful actions you can take to mitigate climate change is drive an EV or no car, eat less meat or no meat, and have less kids or no kids). Population growth cannot continue forever, nor population stability at an unsustainable aggregate consumption level. https://e360.yale.edu/features/our_overcrowded_planet_a_failure_of_family_planning https://e360.yale.edu/features/our_overcrowded_planet_a_fail...
- noahtallen 5y ago
  Frankly, there is a larger understanding among young people that it’s irresponsible to have a child unless you’re financially stable with a good space for a home. Turns out that _most_ young people (outside of the software biz, of course!) don’t make enough money to support themselves plus a kid, plus a home with space good for raising kids. And they don’t feel outward pressure from their parents or religion to have a kid nearly as much as they used to. And beyond that, poor mental health and knowledge of what kids can be like also means young people just don’t feel ready to raise a kid for quite a while. These factors won’t go away without serious changes in how our economic system works. I would also ask if it really matters that the birth to death ratio is more than one. One seems like a good baseline to maintain.
  - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
    People have silly cultural expectations about what is necessary to support children. I just saw a documentary about a Congolese truck driver with five kids. He made $120/month, and his goal in life was to keep them fed -- literally. If I were willing to take the expectations surrounding that man, and adopt them for myself, I could easily support two dozen children.
    - rdtwo 5y ago
      Yeah that’s not how you build functional adult in modern society, but might be a successful formula for a army of child soldiers
      - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
        http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_arith.htm http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_arith.htm
      - cinquemb 5y ago
        > Yeah that’s not how you build functional adult in modern society, I'm not quite sure anyone has a monopoly on a definition of what this could be, and very much subjective to various forms of "cultural hangups" that might be prevalent around the world at any given time.
    - swiley 5y ago
      It turns out rent in the west costs more than $120/month no matter how resourceful you are or how hard you work.
      - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
        And yet nobody leaves. Seems like a failure of imagination, to me.
nojokes 5y ago
Not necessarily if the result is a large boom of people who do not integrate.
swiley 5y ago
I'm generally pro immigration but: 1) If not handled well that can make a huge mess. see Germany 5 years ago for example 2) If the people immigrating aren't well educated or capable of communicating with the rest of the people but are allowed to vote then malicious politicians can use that to distort the democracy which is pretty dangerous. 3) There are some pretty nasty cultures there. I'm not about to go preaching that we have it totally right but some of the stuff going on in Asia and Africa is totally unacceptable.

websites2023 5y ago

Absolutely. One of the best things about the US is that we have a culture which is adept at integrating immigrants. The US will stave off demographic collapse because of this.

DamnYuppie 5y ago

The solution is to look at our culture and systems of governance and employment and understand what can be done to enable and encourage more people having children. Bringing in more people is just a lazy fix and does nothing to fix the underlying problems.

UncleMeat 5y ago
Why is population growth via reproduction a thing that governments should encourage? If there are problems with society, we should fix them for their own sake.
toomuchtodo 5y ago
Counterpoint: The world has enough people (7.5B on track for 11B by end of century). Stop subsidizing children with pro natal policies, and pay people who choose not to have children (the three most impactful actions you can take to mitigate climate change is drive an EV or no car, eat less meat or no meat, and have less kids or no kids). Population growth cannot continue forever, nor population stability at an unsustainable aggregate consumption level. https://e360.yale.edu/features/our_overcrowded_planet_a_failure_of_family_planning https://e360.yale.edu/features/our_overcrowded_planet_a_fail...
noahtallen 5y ago
Frankly, there is a larger understanding among young people that it’s irresponsible to have a child unless you’re financially stable with a good space for a home. Turns out that _most_ young people (outside of the software biz, of course!) don’t make enough money to support themselves plus a kid, plus a home with space good for raising kids. And they don’t feel outward pressure from their parents or religion to have a kid nearly as much as they used to. And beyond that, poor mental health and knowledge of what kids can be like also means young people just don’t feel ready to raise a kid for quite a while. These factors won’t go away without serious changes in how our economic system works. I would also ask if it really matters that the birth to death ratio is more than one. One seems like a good baseline to maintain.
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
  People have silly cultural expectations about what is necessary to support children. I just saw a documentary about a Congolese truck driver with five kids. He made $120/month, and his goal in life was to keep them fed -- literally. If I were willing to take the expectations surrounding that man, and adopt them for myself, I could easily support two dozen children.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    Yeah that’s not how you build functional adult in modern society, but might be a successful formula for a army of child soldiers
    - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
      http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_arith.htm http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_arith.htm
    - cinquemb 5y ago
      > Yeah that’s not how you build functional adult in modern society, I'm not quite sure anyone has a monopoly on a definition of what this could be, and very much subjective to various forms of "cultural hangups" that might be prevalent around the world at any given time.
  - swiley 5y ago
    It turns out rent in the west costs more than $120/month no matter how resourceful you are or how hard you work.
    - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
      And yet nobody leaves. Seems like a failure of imagination, to me.

nojokes 5y ago

Not necessarily if the result is a large boom of people who do not integrate.

swiley 5y ago

I'm generally pro immigration but: 1) If not handled well that can make a huge mess. see Germany 5 years ago for example 2) If the people immigrating aren't well educated or capable of communicating with the rest of the people but are allowed to vote then malicious politicians can use that to distort the democracy which is pretty dangerous. 3) There are some pretty nasty cultures there. I'm not about to go preaching that we have it totally right but some of the stuff going on in Asia and Africa is totally unacceptable.