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>>it will affect many more kids, and otherwise unlikely events will become common. Ignoring the risk is foolish. It will affect many more kids, yes, and then t

>>it will affect many more kids, and otherwise unlikely events will become common. Ignoring the risk is foolish. It will affect many more kids, yes, and then they will be immune, and subsequent infections, if they occur, will be even milder. The virus is not going away. Even near total vaccination does not end its transmission in the population: https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/1424011542195023878 https://twitter.com/eliaseythorsson/status/14240115421950238... So barring every one living in bubbles for the rest of their life, every one will be infected by it at least once. Masking at best just delays the inevitable, for a virus which poses an extremely low risk to children who have already seen their lives disrupted for a year and a half in this over-reaction. >>Schools are already known to be a large vector for airborne diseases, Children shouldn't be burdened with continuous masking to protect adults. Moreover, children are not major vectors of transmission: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/147/4/e2020048090 https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/147/4/e202004... >>Against this, you posit some hypothetical emotional harm to children of wearing masks. I never said anything about "emotional harm". I said it would interfere with the development of communication skills, because it obstructs non-verbal communication cues like facial expressions. >>This is absurd on its face, but we'll discuss it. This - trying to gaslight people into thinking their extremely legitimate concern is 'absurd' - is not an appropriate way for you to debate and attempt to push your agenda. If you want to talk about absurd, it's you comparing one day of Halloween mask-wearing a year, to continuous mask-wearing for every school day of the year. >>About masks in general, there are many other professions that wear them all day, not only physicians whom you glibly dismiss. I've read countless physicaian/nurse/HC accounts mentioning wearing masks all day. They don't wear masks all day on a regular basis though. I did not "glibly dismiss" physicians. I pointed out that they do not wear masks all day on any regular basis. I also pointed out that they are adults and have already had normal childhoods without their faces being covered. >>consider the Inuit, who wear coverings face coverings for long periods daily almost from birth, barely exposing their eyes. Do you have a source on Inuit wearing face coverings indoors? And I don't see why, even if it were true of Inuit children that their faces are covered for most of their childhood, you'd assume it doesn't harm their development of communication skills. >>Humans are the most adaptable species on the planet, and children are the most adaptable among us. Glibly dismissing the harm to communication skills, from not being able to use facial expressions, with over-confident proclomations of the human ability to adapt, is reckless. EDIT, I'm being rate limited so I'll respond to the below here: >>... you post nothing but frantic rationalizations ... to put the cart before the horse, the secondary issue before the primary The evidence I provided shows that the response you are advocating, of masking all children all school year, is disproportionate to the risk covid poses to children. You seem to be emotionally wedded to a position and not able to process arguments against it in a rational way. >>People who wear face coverings learn to communicate better with their eyes, Source on this being an equal substitute to facial expressions? The burden of proof is on you to show that forcing children to use substitutes wouldn't be harmful to communication and social development. >>and the kids are not in school every day all day. They don't have parrnts, siblings, friends at home? School is where children engage in much of their socialization, if not most of it. And they're now being required to mask with their friends outside of school too, so that exacerbates whatever harm masking does. >>Meanwhile you glibly dismiss actual data and a disease that is already (pre-Delta) in the top 10 causes of child death, nevermind other ongoing effects, and knock-on infections. Which data am I dismissing? Can you provide it?

toss1 5y ago
... you post nothing but frantic rationalizations for the tail to wag the dog, to put the cart before the horse, the secondary issue before the primary People who wear face coverings learn to communicate better with their eyes, and the kids are not in school every day all day. They don't have parrnts, siblings, friends at home? And that is IFF there is actually a problem. Meanwhile you glibly dismiss actual data and a disease that is already (pre-Delta) in the top 10 causes of child death, nevermind other ongoing effects, and knock-on infections. You really need to reconsider your self*centered perspective good night
toss1 5y ago
>>Which data am I dismissing? Can you provide it? Sure - here's just one citation about COVID-19 being in the top-10 causes of deaths for children. [1] Note that this was in 2020, BEFORE the Delta variant existed. With Delta being far more contagious and causing deeper infection levels, especially different profiles in the young, this will not get better with Delta. Sure, getting a jab and a mask is mildly inconvenient, and might impose a bit on your expectation of a fully smooth and privileged life. But make no mistake, the fact that you are making those arguments in the way you make them shows that it is from every perspective,both current and historical, you are massively priveleged. The fact is that throughout history the demands of actual survival have, with only rare exceptions, imposed themselves on our lives. Full "self-actualization" is a luxury, not some basic right, and it is only available AFTER survival needs are met. This is a survival need. People far more expert, and with far more skin in the game are imploring us to take a few simple measures. Yet jokers like you endlessly whine, bitch, and moan about imagined harms that might come to you because it is a bit inconvenient. Get over yourself, contribute a bit to the general welfare, and you might find things get better. If you don't want your kids to wear a mask, keep them home. Stop imposing your idiocy on everyone else. In short, YOU are part of the problem, part of the reason we are having a massive spike, while, for example, Germany is not. Stop it. [1] https://www.wbrc.com/2021/05/23/covid-is-one-top-causes-death-children/ https://www.wbrc.com/2021/05/23/covid-is-one-top-causes-deat...
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  >>Sure - here's just one citation about COVID-19 being in the top-10 causes of deaths for children. From your link: >>Officials with Children’s of Alabama said in 2020, the virus was one of the top 10 leading causes of death in children. >>“COVID is the tenth leading cause of death for children in the United States,” Dr. David Kimberlin with Children’s of Alabama said. “It is among most common causes of death in children and adolescents.” Covid being described as the 10th leading cause of death for children in a single state in a single year is very weak substantiation of your claim. First of all, at 10th place, it is the least significant cause of death among the top 10. This diminishes the potency of your statistical claim. For context, for the 1-4, 5-9 and 10-14 age groups, pneumonia/influenza are the 6th, 7th and 8th leading cause of death, respectively: https://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe https://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe So in Alabama, the response to influenza & pneumonia in children should be more drastic than the response to covid. Second, this is a single state, which could be an outlier, meaning this "10th leading cause of death in children" statistic, as unalarming as it is, may be an over-estimation of the nation-wide statistics. Do you have statistics showing how many children have died from covid in the US, or what the infection fatality rate for covid is for children? With resprct to the latter, the CDC says the IFR for children is only 0.002%, which is indeed EXTREMELY low: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena... Do you find this significant, and justifying indefinite masking of all children during schooling hours? >>With Delta being far more contagious and causing deeper infection levels, especially different profiles in the young, this will not get better with Delta. In England, there were only 8 Delta variant deaths in the entire country for those under the age of 50 in the period under study: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/who-is-most-at-risk-from-the-delta-variant.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/who-is-most-at-risk-from-the... So I see plenty of evidence showing that your concerns are in fact unlikely to be realized. >>Get over yourself, contribute a bit to the general welfare, and you might find things get better. Take your own advice. Look at the evidence and stop preaching from a soapbox.

toss1 5y ago

... you post nothing but frantic rationalizations for the tail to wag the dog, to put the cart before the horse, the secondary issue before the primary People who wear face coverings learn to communicate better with their eyes, and the kids are not in school every day all day. They don't have parrnts, siblings, friends at home? And that is IFF there is actually a problem. Meanwhile you glibly dismiss actual data and a disease that is already (pre-Delta) in the top 10 causes of child death, nevermind other ongoing effects, and knock-on infections. You really need to reconsider your self*centered perspective good night

toss1 5y ago

>>Which data am I dismissing? Can you provide it? Sure - here's just one citation about COVID-19 being in the top-10 causes of deaths for children. [1] Note that this was in 2020, BEFORE the Delta variant existed. With Delta being far more contagious and causing deeper infection levels, especially different profiles in the young, this will not get better with Delta. Sure, getting a jab and a mask is mildly inconvenient, and might impose a bit on your expectation of a fully smooth and privileged life. But make no mistake, the fact that you are making those arguments in the way you make them shows that it is from every perspective,both current and historical, you are massively priveleged. The fact is that throughout history the demands of actual survival have, with only rare exceptions, imposed themselves on our lives. Full "self-actualization" is a luxury, not some basic right, and it is only available AFTER survival needs are met. This is a survival need. People far more expert, and with far more skin in the game are imploring us to take a few simple measures. Yet jokers like you endlessly whine, bitch, and moan about imagined harms that might come to you because it is a bit inconvenient. Get over yourself, contribute a bit to the general welfare, and you might find things get better. If you don't want your kids to wear a mask, keep them home. Stop imposing your idiocy on everyone else. In short, YOU are part of the problem, part of the reason we are having a massive spike, while, for example, Germany is not. Stop it. [1] https://www.wbrc.com/2021/05/23/covid-is-one-top-causes-death-children/ https://www.wbrc.com/2021/05/23/covid-is-one-top-causes-deat...

CryptoPunk 5y ago
>>Sure - here's just one citation about COVID-19 being in the top-10 causes of deaths for children. From your link: >>Officials with Children’s of Alabama said in 2020, the virus was one of the top 10 leading causes of death in children. >>“COVID is the tenth leading cause of death for children in the United States,” Dr. David Kimberlin with Children’s of Alabama said. “It is among most common causes of death in children and adolescents.” Covid being described as the 10th leading cause of death for children in a single state in a single year is very weak substantiation of your claim. First of all, at 10th place, it is the least significant cause of death among the top 10. This diminishes the potency of your statistical claim. For context, for the 1-4, 5-9 and 10-14 age groups, pneumonia/influenza are the 6th, 7th and 8th leading cause of death, respectively: https://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe https://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe So in Alabama, the response to influenza & pneumonia in children should be more drastic than the response to covid. Second, this is a single state, which could be an outlier, meaning this "10th leading cause of death in children" statistic, as unalarming as it is, may be an over-estimation of the nation-wide statistics. Do you have statistics showing how many children have died from covid in the US, or what the infection fatality rate for covid is for children? With resprct to the latter, the CDC says the IFR for children is only 0.002%, which is indeed EXTREMELY low: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena... Do you find this significant, and justifying indefinite masking of all children during schooling hours? >>With Delta being far more contagious and causing deeper infection levels, especially different profiles in the young, this will not get better with Delta. In England, there were only 8 Delta variant deaths in the entire country for those under the age of 50 in the period under study: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/who-is-most-at-risk-from-the-delta-variant.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/who-is-most-at-risk-from-the... So I see plenty of evidence showing that your concerns are in fact unlikely to be realized. >>Get over yourself, contribute a bit to the general welfare, and you might find things get better. Take your own advice. Look at the evidence and stop preaching from a soapbox.