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Is this the world we want to leave our children? Serious question, because I don’t think many of the US citizens that support this have children or if they do,
by lettergram 5y ago
Is this the world we want to leave our children? Serious question, because I don’t think many of the US citizens that support this have children or if they do, if they live outside cities...
Most people hate toll roads, most people hate surveillance. Here we are implementing both.
I just drove home through part of rural Kentucky. I have to, to get too and from my farm. That farm that potentially feeds you. I’m going to be taxed more than the city folk, who eat my food. They don’t even realize it.
Now, I can’t raise my rates because you can buy your beef from Brazil or Argentina or from some bulk grower. All of whom this tax won’t impact because they have scale.
This, plus a bunch of tiny leeches will eventually suck the blood from my side business. Perhaps more importantly, it’ll suck the will of the people. The farmers around me are all old. A conversation I had with the guy next to me was “people just don’t wanna work any more”. He’s right. I work so hard, hard enough to buy a farm (while still doing tech during the days). I wanted to experience what they do (just raising grass fed cattle and bees for honey and a large garden to supplement my food), my operation is just starting, but I’m on year 3 of bees and been gardening forever just growing it every year.
Politicians and people just don’t get it. These kind of bills have a dramatic impact. Farmers by me make something like $40k net a year. A tax of a few hundred or thousand would push them to decide between dental care or food or fixing the car (they’d have to go car, food, dental). For me, I do this on the side, for them, they’re basically losing their livelihood. I’m not saying this tax is the one to push them over. But it’s just another cut forcing them to bleed out.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoWe don’t want to leave our children a nation where the critical infrastructure used by all of us is paid for? As gas tax isn’t feasible due to the rapid transition to electric vehicles, leaving a road tax as the only equitable option to fund infrastructure O&M expenses. Where would one expect the funding come from if not from users of roads?
- busymom0 5y agoWhere's all the other tax which is already too high going? How has the country been able to pay for critical infrastructure in past centuries? How will the working class people who have to drive everyday and can't work from home unlike the rich tech people pay these bills? Respectfully, your profile says "In search of projects with maximum positive impact with zero financial return." which tells me you are already financially sufficient and won't be impacted by this. The workers like nurses, delivery, uber, manual labour etc who has to drive everyday gets pounded by this.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 5y agoThere is a balance to be found between regressive taxes (not good) and supporting unsustainable practices (also not good). If you’re commuting 100 miles round trip everyday, you should still be paying for those roads, just as we expect you to pay for your own fuel. I would also say incomes being stagnant for the last 40 years (due to globalization and the decline in unions and manufacturing jobs) has not helped folks who live in rural areas. Do we subsidize folks who can’t afford this? If so, how much? For how long? Important questions to be explored.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- dabbledash 5y agoThen read the odometer. You don’t need to subject everyone to constant surveillance to pay for roads.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoSpeaking only of the US, you have no right to privacy in public [1]. Existing law enables both government and private surveillance systems with little recourse. Capturing mileage by geographic area would be an acceptable solution, but mileage delta over time would be insufficient to collect and disburse road taxes based on what is needed/used/traveled the most. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy
- Overton-Window 5y agoWhat do you gain from carrying water for tyrants? > but mileage delta over time would be insufficient to collect and disburse road taxes based on what is needed/used/traveled the most. This is already reality.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoA commons that flourishes instead of wilting from tragedy. https://www.theregreview.org/2019/08/21/kadich-fixing-shortfall-highway-infrastructure-funding/ https://www.theregreview.org/2019/08/21/kadich-fixing-shortf... https://infrastructurereportcard.org/ https://infrastructurereportcard.org/
- Overton-Window 5y agoA theorised benefit at the guaranteed cost of perpetual surveillance. No thanks.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
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- lettergram 5y agoEveryone benefits from the roads, it’s covered via the income tax. The fact I travel means I spread wealth. That transaction is income to someone else, which is taxed. We didn’t become a wealthy nation by having tax burden.
- throw0101a 5y ago> Everyone benefits from the roads, it’s covered via the income tax. Everyone benefits from roads, but not everyone causes the same damage to them. I mostly ride a bicycle (Apr-Dec), a motorcycle (Apr-Oct), or take public transit (Jan-Mar). I cause very little damage to roads compared to someone who drives a sedan or SUV everyday. I cause an infinitesimally small amount of damage compared to an 18-wheeler. Why do I (on my 400 lb motorcycle) have to pay as much as someone in their 4000 lb (or more) automobile? I'm happy to put my money into a risk pool for things like public health insurance, as I don't know what kind of cheap or expensive illness I may get in the future, but I do not think that kind of principle applies to road use. Shouldn't payment be proportional to use in this case?
- busymom0 5y agoExactly. This type of stuff always seems very elitist and ends up hurting the poor working class the most. Politicians who are getting paid $174K with tax payer money and other expenses paid for have absolutely zero clue how the working class lives and survives.