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I love that this project investigated some novel surface chemistry. I hate that the article ignores that the aluminum is made using a bunch of electricity. Jus

I love that this project investigated some novel surface chemistry. I hate that the article ignores that the aluminum is made using a bunch of electricity. Just use that electricity to make hydrogen in the first place, hydrolysis is approximately as efficient as aluminum smelting already (and both are over 90%)...

kumarvvr 5y ago
Actually, that works in favour of this method here, provided certain conditions are met. Aluminium takes a big juicy bunch of electricity. Its very energy intensive. But, if we can extract a good portion of that aluminium energy as hydrogen gas, then aluminium acts as a highly energy dense battery. It can then be effectively used for grid scale energy storage.
bordakt 5y ago
> Using aluminum as our source, we can ‘store’ hydrogen at a density that’s 10 times greater than if we just store it as a compressed gas. The point is that it is beneficial to store the energy as Aluminium instead of hydrogen gas.
elcritch 5y ago
Hydrogen production via electrolysis isn’t over 90% in real systems. It’s more on the order of 70% for real world systems. Some small scale research systems can hit 90% or more for various solid oxide electrodes, but they’re fragile and generally not commercially available yet. See https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589299119300035 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258929911... as an example overview.
burnished 5y ago
Are you thinking of aluminum recycling, which is much easier than aluminum smelting, which is not an incredibly efficient process? I think recycling aluminum requires 5% of the energy that smelting it requires.
- neltnerb 5y ago
  It is possible, I didn't look up numbers. Still, it's hard to imagine inserting a step being a practical solution. I expect a reasonable high density low pressure hydrogen storage solution to happen sooner at any scale, a solid fuel isn't particularly practical either except in a one-use battery.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Retric 5y ago
  That’s a misunderstanding. Aluminium smelting is the process of extracting pure Aluminium from its oxide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting Recycling generally avoids smelting aluminum because Aluminum in say cans only has an atomic scale coating of Aluminum oxide around pure Aluminium.
tibyat 5y ago
The article did not ignore it. > On the other hand, pure aluminum could be used for the reaction as well, however, it is energy-intensive and not environment-friendly. Aluminum is used in everyday items like soft-drink cans and often ends as scrap. Therefore, the researchers wanted to use scrap aluminum to source the fuel. They use scrap

kumarvvr 5y ago

Actually, that works in favour of this method here, provided certain conditions are met. Aluminium takes a big juicy bunch of electricity. Its very energy intensive. But, if we can extract a good portion of that aluminium energy as hydrogen gas, then aluminium acts as a highly energy dense battery. It can then be effectively used for grid scale energy storage.

bordakt 5y ago

> Using aluminum as our source, we can ‘store’ hydrogen at a density that’s 10 times greater than if we just store it as a compressed gas. The point is that it is beneficial to store the energy as Aluminium instead of hydrogen gas.

elcritch 5y ago

Hydrogen production via electrolysis isn’t over 90% in real systems. It’s more on the order of 70% for real world systems. Some small scale research systems can hit 90% or more for various solid oxide electrodes, but they’re fragile and generally not commercially available yet. See https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589299119300035 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258929911... as an example overview.

burnished 5y ago

Are you thinking of aluminum recycling, which is much easier than aluminum smelting, which is not an incredibly efficient process? I think recycling aluminum requires 5% of the energy that smelting it requires.

neltnerb 5y ago
It is possible, I didn't look up numbers. Still, it's hard to imagine inserting a step being a practical solution. I expect a reasonable high density low pressure hydrogen storage solution to happen sooner at any scale, a solid fuel isn't particularly practical either except in a one-use battery.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Retric 5y ago
That’s a misunderstanding. Aluminium smelting is the process of extracting pure Aluminium from its oxide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_smelting Recycling generally avoids smelting aluminum because Aluminum in say cans only has an atomic scale coating of Aluminum oxide around pure Aluminium.

tibyat 5y ago

The article did not ignore it. > On the other hand, pure aluminum could be used for the reaction as well, however, it is energy-intensive and not environment-friendly. Aluminum is used in everyday items like soft-drink cans and often ends as scrap. Therefore, the researchers wanted to use scrap aluminum to source the fuel. They use scrap