3 ms·

I would wager that the integration of the Denisovians with this community's other ancestors happened in mainland Asia, long before their decedents traveled to t

I would wager that the integration of the Denisovians with this community's other ancestors happened in mainland Asia, long before their decedents traveled to the Philippines.

ummonk 5y ago
You’re arguing for a founder effect explaining the higher Denisovan proportion on the island vis a vis other parts of southeast asia?
- garbagetime 5y ago
  Are you implying that wouldn't make sense? Because it makes sense to me.
  - ummonk 5y ago
    That was my first thought when I had seen news of the paper, but the paper had some data to suggest the negritos split off from other sapiens before the denisovan introgression.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- spoonjim 5y ago
  Makes sense. Denisovan descendants go to Philippines, the ones left behind get killed off by some other land-based group.
kurthr 5y ago
Yep, when you're looking at relatively low concentrations that are constantly falling (each generation) then looking at an island to find a higher concentration makes a lot of sense long after concentrations were actually high.
gerdesj 5y ago
"I would wager that the integration of the Denisovians with this community's other ancestors happened in mainland Asia, long before their decedents traveled to the Philippines." Cool idea. Where are you digging? Are you aware of just how convoluted and bloody complicated things get when you look at notions like species in the past? Denisovans do not really have a fixed point in the taxonomy (whatever that really means.) Their existence is inferred from a few teeth and bones - good evidence though. Well let's put it like this: we know far more about Mars than the Denisovans. You use terminology like "decedents traveled to the Philippines." I'll ignore speling but what you really mean is that some genes have been found, not fully formed descendants discovered. Unless you've got some eyewitness grade evidence, you cannot simply decide that someone clung to a log or paddled their canoe or sailed ... etc and lo the Philippines was won. That's simply silly and sounds like a US style "how the West was won" grade phantasy. I'll wager that we will gradually learn a bit more about a group of early humans that we call Denisovans and the link with the Philippines. We already have a genomic link - a group there: Ayta Magbukon has more in common than anyone else. As to how those genes got there is unlikely to be worked out directly.
- cletus 5y ago
  That commenter was responding to the assertion that Denisovans crossed the sea to the Philippines. That would’ve had to have happened >100,000 years ago if so. It’s far more likely that the migration happened much later from a population with a heavy Denisovan genetic influence. Then being isolated that population retained more of those genes. The mainland group would’ve likely lost that with mixed breeding. That’s pretty much just common sense.
  - kingkawn 5y ago
    How do you know it’s more likely? What do you know about these people?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

I would wager that the integration of the Denisovians with this community's other ancestors happened in mainland Asia, long before their decedents traveled to the Philippines.

ummonk 5y ago

You’re arguing for a founder effect explaining the higher Denisovan proportion on the island vis a vis other parts of southeast asia?

garbagetime 5y ago
Are you implying that wouldn't make sense? Because it makes sense to me.
- ummonk 5y ago
  That was my first thought when I had seen news of the paper, but the paper had some data to suggest the negritos split off from other sapiens before the denisovan introgression.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
spoonjim 5y ago
Makes sense. Denisovan descendants go to Philippines, the ones left behind get killed off by some other land-based group.

kurthr 5y ago

Yep, when you're looking at relatively low concentrations that are constantly falling (each generation) then looking at an island to find a higher concentration makes a lot of sense long after concentrations were actually high.

gerdesj 5y ago

"I would wager that the integration of the Denisovians with this community's other ancestors happened in mainland Asia, long before their decedents traveled to the Philippines." Cool idea. Where are you digging? Are you aware of just how convoluted and bloody complicated things get when you look at notions like species in the past? Denisovans do not really have a fixed point in the taxonomy (whatever that really means.) Their existence is inferred from a few teeth and bones - good evidence though. Well let's put it like this: we know far more about Mars than the Denisovans. You use terminology like "decedents traveled to the Philippines." I'll ignore speling but what you really mean is that some genes have been found, not fully formed descendants discovered. Unless you've got some eyewitness grade evidence, you cannot simply decide that someone clung to a log or paddled their canoe or sailed ... etc and lo the Philippines was won. That's simply silly and sounds like a US style "how the West was won" grade phantasy. I'll wager that we will gradually learn a bit more about a group of early humans that we call Denisovans and the link with the Philippines. We already have a genomic link - a group there: Ayta Magbukon has more in common than anyone else. As to how those genes got there is unlikely to be worked out directly.

cletus 5y ago
That commenter was responding to the assertion that Denisovans crossed the sea to the Philippines. That would’ve had to have happened >100,000 years ago if so. It’s far more likely that the migration happened much later from a population with a heavy Denisovan genetic influence. Then being isolated that population retained more of those genes. The mainland group would’ve likely lost that with mixed breeding. That’s pretty much just common sense.
- kingkawn 5y ago
  How do you know it’s more likely? What do you know about these people?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]