4 ms·

The major difference is between scripts which are representative of value and not traded vs an attempted representation of real, tradable currency.

by trevoro 15y ago

dfc 15y ago
Between "scripts?" Microsoft points are traded and I still do not understand what the legal ramifications are if something is or is not "traded." What is your definition of traded?
- saurik 15y ago
  (o) "Money transmission" means any of the following: (1) Selling or issuing payment instruments. (2) Selling or issuing stored value. (3) Receiving money for transmission. (q) "Payment instrument" means a check, draft, money order, traveler's check, or other instrument for the transmission or payment of money or monetary value, whether or not negotiable. The term does not include a credit card voucher, letter of credit, or any instrument that is redeemable by the issuer for goods or services provided by the issuer or its affiliate. (v) "Stored value" means monetary value representing a claim against the issuer that is stored on an electronic or digital medium and evidenced by an electronic or digital record, and that is intended and accepted for use as a means of redemption for money or monetary value or payment for goods or services. The term does not include a credit card voucher, letter of credit, or any stored value that is only redeemable by the issuer for goods or services provided by the issuer or its affiliate, except to the extent required by applicable law to be redeemable in cash for its cash value. (n) "Money" means a medium of exchange that is authorized or adopted by the United States or a foreign government. The term includes a monetary unit of account established by an intergovernmental organization or by agreement between two or more governments. -- http://www.dfi.ca.gov/licensees/moneytransmitters/ http://www.dfi.ca.gov/licensees/moneytransmitters/ In essence, "MS Points" are exempt, because they are "only redeemable by the issuer for goods or services provided by the issuer or its affiliate".
  - dfc 15y ago
    So which one is bitcoin? (I am assuming these definitions relate to a california legal world only?
    - saurik 15y ago
      I believe bitcoin to be a "payment instrument", but I could see an argument that it doesn't fit intk any of these definitions as it is really designed by someone as a competitor for "momey", so we would really need to look at laws for currency exchange or something, but that just underscores that bitcoin is fundamentally then unlike MS points, which are pretty much a gift card. Also, definitions similar to this are generally accepted. I happened to know where in Calofornia's legal code I could go to get a firm definition that clearly laid out the "gift card" exception, but frankly the answers other people already have been giving should have been sufficient: I was mearly providing evidence for "gift cards are normally exempt".
- trevoro 15y ago
  Sorry, bad typo. I meant "scrips", not "Scripts"

The major difference is between scripts which are representative of value and not traded vs an attempted representation of real, tradable currency.

by trevoro 15y ago

The major difference is between scripts which are representative of value and not traded vs an attempted representation of real, tradable currency.

dfc 15y ago

Between "scripts?" Microsoft points are traded and I still do not understand what the legal ramifications are if something is or is not "traded." What is your definition of traded?

saurik 15y ago
(o) "Money transmission" means any of the following: (1) Selling or issuing payment instruments. (2) Selling or issuing stored value. (3) Receiving money for transmission. (q) "Payment instrument" means a check, draft, money order, traveler's check, or other instrument for the transmission or payment of money or monetary value, whether or not negotiable. The term does not include a credit card voucher, letter of credit, or any instrument that is redeemable by the issuer for goods or services provided by the issuer or its affiliate. (v) "Stored value" means monetary value representing a claim against the issuer that is stored on an electronic or digital medium and evidenced by an electronic or digital record, and that is intended and accepted for use as a means of redemption for money or monetary value or payment for goods or services. The term does not include a credit card voucher, letter of credit, or any stored value that is only redeemable by the issuer for goods or services provided by the issuer or its affiliate, except to the extent required by applicable law to be redeemable in cash for its cash value. (n) "Money" means a medium of exchange that is authorized or adopted by the United States or a foreign government. The term includes a monetary unit of account established by an intergovernmental organization or by agreement between two or more governments. -- http://www.dfi.ca.gov/licensees/moneytransmitters/ http://www.dfi.ca.gov/licensees/moneytransmitters/ In essence, "MS Points" are exempt, because they are "only redeemable by the issuer for goods or services provided by the issuer or its affiliate".
- dfc 15y ago
  So which one is bitcoin? (I am assuming these definitions relate to a california legal world only?
  - saurik 15y ago
    I believe bitcoin to be a "payment instrument", but I could see an argument that it doesn't fit intk any of these definitions as it is really designed by someone as a competitor for "momey", so we would really need to look at laws for currency exchange or something, but that just underscores that bitcoin is fundamentally then unlike MS points, which are pretty much a gift card. Also, definitions similar to this are generally accepted. I happened to know where in Calofornia's legal code I could go to get a firm definition that clearly laid out the "gift card" exception, but frankly the answers other people already have been giving should have been sufficient: I was mearly providing evidence for "gift cards are normally exempt".
trevoro 15y ago
Sorry, bad typo. I meant "scrips", not "Scripts"