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> President of the United States Thomas Jefferson – fearing that slaves gaining their independence would spread to the United States – stopped sending aid that

> President of the United States Thomas Jefferson – fearing that slaves gaining their independence would spread to the United States – stopped sending aid that began under his predecessor John Adams and pursued international isolation of Haiti during his tenure.[3] This skips over the context of why people absolutely feared the idea of slaves gaining freedom after the Haitian Revolution. The reason for that was the genocide carried out against non-black Haitians. [1] Even those people who actively opposed slavery, including children, were murdered. Americans feared that if slaves were freed, they'd all be raped and murdered as well I'm not here to justify slavery or anything. But people 200 years ago didn't consider all races equal, and they were especially put off by the events that transpired in Haiti and wanted to actively prevent anything similar from happening in their own hometown. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

BoiledCabbage 5y ago
To be clear, this was a horrible event - but frequently like here it leaves out any other events during the period. Killing 2000 whites at once is horrible. It came the end of a fight for independence / freedom from slavery that had been killing on average 10,000 blacks per year for 100 years. Over 1 million blacks died in Haiti during slavery. Killing does not justify killing, but at the same time 2,000 in the context of 1 million is something different. And yes those 1 million included women and children as well. This was not peaceful treatment: > Torture of slaves was routine; they were whipped, burned, buried alive, restrained and allowed to be bitten by swarms of insects, mutilated, raped, and had limbs amputated. The life expectancy of an enslaved person was 3 years. Yes that level of absurd. It's almost unfathomable. And during that same war Napoleon's armies were also committing massacres - and the thing that stopped them from elevating to genocide was that they kept losing battles/territory. Ie one army succeeded at what the other failed at. What happened in Haiti and the major powers treatment of the colony was disgusting and severely understudied/unknown by most people.
- phkahler 5y ago
  >> Killing does not justify killing, I think the rest of your lengthy post refutes that. Or maybe it means "but we understand why they did it."
  - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
    Nope, not that. It means history does not happen in a vacuum. But I don't want this to devolve into an internet argument, especially not on this topic, and I feel it tip toeing towards that line - so I'll gracefully end my replies here. Cheers.
tshaddox 5y ago
That certainly doesn’t justify slavery, and also doesn’t really provide any useful context in my opinion. There isn’t a big difference between “they didn’t want their slaves to gain freedom” and “they didn’t want their slaves to gain freedom and be angry at their former masters.”
- trainsplanes 5y ago
  Children and abolitionists weren’t masters and were still killed. There’s a big difference between being angry at slave owners and carrying out genocide. The latter is what happened in Haiti and people in the US actively feared that for decades.
sunsetSamurai 5y ago
Yep, a few years later Haiti invaded my country and did the same thing, some towns still tell the stories of the massacres hatians committed in DR, they closed down schools and universities, killed blacks, whites and mulattos, by the time we got rid of them our economy was in shambles and the population was about a third of the population when they invated DR, I think this is the single event that has caused the most damage to my country ever. And let's not forget for those 2 decades we also payed Haiti's dept to France, something we had nothing to do with. Haitians love to bring up slavery and their treatment by France and USA as the only and main cause of why they're so poor, but the elephant in the room is how corrupted Haitian politicians and business people are, in the 1950s DR and Haiti had about the same GDP, and now DR is about 10 times richer. Corruption is the main cause of why Haiti is so poor nowadays, I should know, my own country is full of it. For some reason they never bring up Papa Duc and Baby Duc and all the other dictators and corrupt presidents they've had in recent decades. I really hope some day Haiti can get their shit together and start to develop their country, that'll be the best for everybody on the Hispaniola island.
- petre 5y ago
  Was this one of the reasons the DR has removed Haitians citizenship a few years ago? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/dominican-republic-erased-birthright-citizenship/575527/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/dominican-...
phkahler 5y ago
>> The reason for that was the genocide carried out against non-black Haitians. That seems over the top to call a slave revolt genocide against the opressing group.
- koheripbal 5y ago
  They systematically murdered every last white person in Haiti - whether they were involved with the French or not. Women and children included. It was very literally genocide. There's no other word for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre#Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre#Massacre
  - whydoibother 5y ago
    Or its called expelling invaders and slavers from your country. And no, it literally isn't genocide. They weren't eradicating the French as a whole. They were removing the ones that decided to colonize and enslave them. By your definition, any targeted mass killing would be genocide, which isn't true at all and dilutes the word.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  The Poles who switched sides and fought with the Haitians seem to get ignored for some reason.

BoiledCabbage 5y ago

To be clear, this was a horrible event - but frequently like here it leaves out any other events during the period. Killing 2000 whites at once is horrible. It came the end of a fight for independence / freedom from slavery that had been killing on average 10,000 blacks per year for 100 years. Over 1 million blacks died in Haiti during slavery. Killing does not justify killing, but at the same time 2,000 in the context of 1 million is something different. And yes those 1 million included women and children as well. This was not peaceful treatment: > Torture of slaves was routine; they were whipped, burned, buried alive, restrained and allowed to be bitten by swarms of insects, mutilated, raped, and had limbs amputated. The life expectancy of an enslaved person was 3 years. Yes that level of absurd. It's almost unfathomable. And during that same war Napoleon's armies were also committing massacres - and the thing that stopped them from elevating to genocide was that they kept losing battles/territory. Ie one army succeeded at what the other failed at. What happened in Haiti and the major powers treatment of the colony was disgusting and severely understudied/unknown by most people.

phkahler 5y ago
>> Killing does not justify killing, I think the rest of your lengthy post refutes that. Or maybe it means "but we understand why they did it."
- BoiledCabbage 5y ago
  Nope, not that. It means history does not happen in a vacuum. But I don't want this to devolve into an internet argument, especially not on this topic, and I feel it tip toeing towards that line - so I'll gracefully end my replies here. Cheers.

tshaddox 5y ago

That certainly doesn’t justify slavery, and also doesn’t really provide any useful context in my opinion. There isn’t a big difference between “they didn’t want their slaves to gain freedom” and “they didn’t want their slaves to gain freedom and be angry at their former masters.”

trainsplanes 5y ago
Children and abolitionists weren’t masters and were still killed. There’s a big difference between being angry at slave owners and carrying out genocide. The latter is what happened in Haiti and people in the US actively feared that for decades.

sunsetSamurai 5y ago

Yep, a few years later Haiti invaded my country and did the same thing, some towns still tell the stories of the massacres hatians committed in DR, they closed down schools and universities, killed blacks, whites and mulattos, by the time we got rid of them our economy was in shambles and the population was about a third of the population when they invated DR, I think this is the single event that has caused the most damage to my country ever. And let's not forget for those 2 decades we also payed Haiti's dept to France, something we had nothing to do with. Haitians love to bring up slavery and their treatment by France and USA as the only and main cause of why they're so poor, but the elephant in the room is how corrupted Haitian politicians and business people are, in the 1950s DR and Haiti had about the same GDP, and now DR is about 10 times richer. Corruption is the main cause of why Haiti is so poor nowadays, I should know, my own country is full of it. For some reason they never bring up Papa Duc and Baby Duc and all the other dictators and corrupt presidents they've had in recent decades. I really hope some day Haiti can get their shit together and start to develop their country, that'll be the best for everybody on the Hispaniola island.

petre 5y ago
Was this one of the reasons the DR has removed Haitians citizenship a few years ago? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/dominican-republic-erased-birthright-citizenship/575527/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/dominican-...

phkahler 5y ago

>> The reason for that was the genocide carried out against non-black Haitians. That seems over the top to call a slave revolt genocide against the opressing group.

koheripbal 5y ago
They systematically murdered every last white person in Haiti - whether they were involved with the French or not. Women and children included. It was very literally genocide. There's no other word for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre#Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre#Massacre
- whydoibother 5y ago
  Or its called expelling invaders and slavers from your country. And no, it literally isn't genocide. They weren't eradicating the French as a whole. They were removing the ones that decided to colonize and enslave them. By your definition, any targeted mass killing would be genocide, which isn't true at all and dilutes the word.
selimthegrim 5y ago
The Poles who switched sides and fought with the Haitians seem to get ignored for some reason.