5 ms·

If I'm following all this correctly, the role of the person standing behind the committer that used the n-word in commit messages was literally to purge "toxic"

by makomk 5y ago

If I'm following all this correctly, the role of the person standing behind the committer that used the n-word in commit messages was literally to purge "toxic" elements and enforce social justice orthodoxy within the Perl Foundation, until she resigned and accused the rest of the board of not caring about the safety of the community. I would honestly be unsurprised to find she'd outright been invoking trans rights to get her way in unrelated disputes; that seems to happen a lot these days. A lot of this has nothing to do with whatever oppressed groups it's meant to be helping and everything to do with the raw exercise of power.

lizmat 5y ago
FWIW, she was not standing behind this committer. This committer, by the way, has been asked to resign from the Raku Steering Council over this (which he did). This committer has also been banned for 6 months over this from any Raku community activity, specifically on the IRC channels by the Raku CAT. And she has terminated her relationship with the committer. The toxic element to be "purged" from the Perl community, has now returned and will make the Perl community more to his image . Which will only get more people to leave the Perl community. But that is no different from the past 15 years that I have had the pleasure of dealing with this toxic element.
- mst 5y ago
  Liz, as the person who forced me to reverse Patrick Spek's original ban for uploading a perl6-n_gg_r directory to cpan, I don't feel your opinion on my "toxicity" is necessarily universal. I am, however, very glad that the Raku CAT has since corrected your mistake. I am very well aware that I can be an asshole sometimes, but unlike you I don't defend outright anti-black racism because, to quote Patrick, "I call my black friends that" and "it's just a word". Your repeated opposition to code of conduct enforcement is unfortunate but now you've resigned I hope we'll be able to move forwards on that matter without your personal dislike of me interfering.
  - codesections 5y ago
    A correction: Liz has been entirely supportive the Raku Steering Council's efforts to establish our Code of Conduct[0] and to enforce that Code. (I know that part of this comment is referring to events that took place years ago; I don't have any firsthand knowledge about those events but want to correct the record about the present) [0]: https://github.com/Raku/Raku-Steering-Council/blob/main/papers/code_of_conduct.md https://github.com/Raku/Raku-Steering-Council/blob/main/pape...
    - mst 5y ago
      This is not the only instance of Liz opposing conduct enforcement, but I don't feel like tracking even more drama in onto the carpet in that regard. I appreciate that she's revised her opinion on this specific case and apologise for not making clearer that she's done so - I only wish she'd be more supportive of code of conduct enforcement in other cases.
mst 5y ago
That's completely wrong. Sam was absolutely doing her best, and if her initial decisions with regard to me were perhaps arguably a trifle draconian, I'd note that "a moderator getting out over their skis due to an excess of righteous anger" is absolutely somebody I've been significantly more times than Sam has. The only person standing behind said committer's racism was lizmat, who forced me to reverse the ban I laid for the original fucked up cpan upload and has been attacking me for thinking he was a problem since. However, lizmat has now resigned from TPF; I hope she isn't as much of a problem to raku conduct enforcement going forwards as she's been elsewhere, but I have faith in the raku team's ability to manage that issue and don't intend to interfere with their doing so.

by makomk 5y ago

lizmat 5y ago

FWIW, she was not standing behind this committer. This committer, by the way, has been asked to resign from the Raku Steering Council over this (which he did). This committer has also been banned for 6 months over this from any Raku community activity, specifically on the IRC channels by the Raku CAT. And she has terminated her relationship with the committer. The toxic element to be "purged" from the Perl community, has now returned and will make the Perl community more to his image . Which will only get more people to leave the Perl community. But that is no different from the past 15 years that I have had the pleasure of dealing with this toxic element.

mst 5y ago
Liz, as the person who forced me to reverse Patrick Spek's original ban for uploading a perl6-n_gg_r directory to cpan, I don't feel your opinion on my "toxicity" is necessarily universal. I am, however, very glad that the Raku CAT has since corrected your mistake. I am very well aware that I can be an asshole sometimes, but unlike you I don't defend outright anti-black racism because, to quote Patrick, "I call my black friends that" and "it's just a word". Your repeated opposition to code of conduct enforcement is unfortunate but now you've resigned I hope we'll be able to move forwards on that matter without your personal dislike of me interfering.
- codesections 5y ago
  A correction: Liz has been entirely supportive the Raku Steering Council's efforts to establish our Code of Conduct[0] and to enforce that Code. (I know that part of this comment is referring to events that took place years ago; I don't have any firsthand knowledge about those events but want to correct the record about the present) [0]: https://github.com/Raku/Raku-Steering-Council/blob/main/papers/code_of_conduct.md https://github.com/Raku/Raku-Steering-Council/blob/main/pape...
  - mst 5y ago
    This is not the only instance of Liz opposing conduct enforcement, but I don't feel like tracking even more drama in onto the carpet in that regard. I appreciate that she's revised her opinion on this specific case and apologise for not making clearer that she's done so - I only wish she'd be more supportive of code of conduct enforcement in other cases.

mst 5y ago

That's completely wrong. Sam was absolutely doing her best, and if her initial decisions with regard to me were perhaps arguably a trifle draconian, I'd note that "a moderator getting out over their skis due to an excess of righteous anger" is absolutely somebody I've been significantly more times than Sam has. The only person standing behind said committer's racism was lizmat, who forced me to reverse the ban I laid for the original fucked up cpan upload and has been attacking me for thinking he was a problem since. However, lizmat has now resigned from TPF; I hope she isn't as much of a problem to raku conduct enforcement going forwards as she's been elsewhere, but I have faith in the raku team's ability to manage that issue and don't intend to interfere with their doing so.