4 ms·

Meanwhile, over here in healthcare, I'm currently carefully evaluating whether to update some software packages from their 2011-release version to their 2015-re

by dmd 5y ago

Meanwhile, over here in healthcare, I'm currently carefully evaluating whether to update some software packages from their 2011-release version to their 2015-release version (which are 99.9% compatible but add one or two new features). And many of our critical systems (mostly MRIs) are on RHEL 5. (Not connected to any network, don't worry!)

user5994461 5y ago
That's a bit too extreme in the opposite direction. :D For those wondering what features are missing from RHEL 5, look further than SSL.
- dmd 5y ago
  Fortunately nobody has ever needed to access the internet from these machines. People on HN forget that a huge amount of computing has nothing whatsoever to do with the web.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    In 2002, I underwent a LASIK operation on a machine that ran Windows for Workgroups. I believe the same machine was in use until 2012 or so.
  - user5994461 5y ago
    Expect all healthcare machines to be networked, even if only internally. Need the active directory to login and need to upload the image/test sample somewhere else after it's taken. That's sadly one reason why ransomware can propagate so easily and stop hospitals. :( In theory there can be computers with no network, typically an isolated computer attached to heavy test machinery, but it's becoming impossibly rare in all industries. And they should be easy to recognize, look for the post-it nearby with the shared username/password to unlock it, also notice the doctors leaving with the x-ray printed on paper or a USB key to be able to transfer it elsewhere.
    - wallaBBB 5y ago
      This if done is usually against the manufacturer's directives (if even possible to put online). The equipment that has networking capabilities is designed for internal networks, physically isolated, and it's a big emphasis on this coming from the OEMs. Changing/maintaining SW in medical devices is not easy (FDA, CE...) and as many mentioned, not everything is designed to move like the web...
umvi 5y ago
Getting your doctors off internet explorer would be a good start
- dmd 5y ago
  But IE7 hasn’t been sufficiently tested for enterprise yet! j/k don’t worry they’re all on Edge.
goodpoint 5y ago
as user5994461 wrote that's a bit too extreme in the opposite direction. However, most people don't realize that the majority of the software deployed in the world is meant to run for years without getting feature updates. Most production code is running on servers, vehicles, industrial systems, infrastructure, military stuff and so on. Planes and power plants can have an expected lifetime of 40 years. Case in point: the civil infrastructure project https://www.cip-project.org/ https://www.cip-project.org/ plans to maintain a Debian-derived kernel and basic OS and backport security updates for 25 years.
midev 5y ago
> Meanwhile, over here in healthcare, I'm currently carefully evaluating whether to update some software packages from their 2011-release version to their 2015-release version This could partially explain why healthcare IT is some of the worst in the world. Can't imagine the number of vulnerabilities you have from using such outdated tech. From EHR systems, to basic appointment scheduling, to billing and insurance, everything is so poorly built and tedious for the users. Not to mention, healthcare is always falling victim to ransomware, shutting down entire hospital systems. I know you'll say you need to move slow, lives are at risk, etc. But what healthcare IT is doing now certainly doesn't work. So maybe push on the gas a little bit.
- stan_rogers 5y ago
  Bullshit. When your "minor issue" becomes something that kills people, you test the living bejesus out of it before you think of deploying. When even the slightest change in UI becomes a deadly operator error, you make damned good and sure that those errors won't happen. There are more things that there is no "undo" (or antidote) for than you can imagine. Having things not isolated is the only real problem.
  - midev 5y ago
    > Bullshit. When your "minor issue" becomes something that kills people, you test the living bejesus out of it before you think of deploying. At no point did I say not to test before rollouts. > When even the slightest change in UI becomes a deadly operator error Stop being dramatic, because it's part of the problem. Yes, UI's are critical, and these UI's are absolute garbage. You need to improve rapidly, not agonize over bullshit changes in Microsoft Office. https://www.thedoctors.com/articles/electronic-health-records-continue-to-lead-to-medical-malpractice-suits/ https://www.thedoctors.com/articles/electronic-health-record... https://ehrintelligence.com/news/diagnostic-medication-errors-rank-among-most-common-ehr-related-issues https://ehrintelligence.com/news/diagnostic-medication-error... EHR's are killing people because they are so poorly built. To reiterate, what you're doing is not working. > you make damned good and sure that those errors won't happen You're not making sure those errors are not happening, is the point.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
MRI machines run Linux? That's really cool. Linux literally saves lives. I'll never forget that.

by dmd 5y ago

user5994461 5y ago

That's a bit too extreme in the opposite direction. :D For those wondering what features are missing from RHEL 5, look further than SSL.

dmd 5y ago
Fortunately nobody has ever needed to access the internet from these machines. People on HN forget that a huge amount of computing has nothing whatsoever to do with the web.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  In 2002, I underwent a LASIK operation on a machine that ran Windows for Workgroups. I believe the same machine was in use until 2012 or so.
- user5994461 5y ago
  Expect all healthcare machines to be networked, even if only internally. Need the active directory to login and need to upload the image/test sample somewhere else after it's taken. That's sadly one reason why ransomware can propagate so easily and stop hospitals. :( In theory there can be computers with no network, typically an isolated computer attached to heavy test machinery, but it's becoming impossibly rare in all industries. And they should be easy to recognize, look for the post-it nearby with the shared username/password to unlock it, also notice the doctors leaving with the x-ray printed on paper or a USB key to be able to transfer it elsewhere.
  - wallaBBB 5y ago
    This if done is usually against the manufacturer's directives (if even possible to put online). The equipment that has networking capabilities is designed for internal networks, physically isolated, and it's a big emphasis on this coming from the OEMs. Changing/maintaining SW in medical devices is not easy (FDA, CE...) and as many mentioned, not everything is designed to move like the web...

umvi 5y ago

Getting your doctors off internet explorer would be a good start

dmd 5y ago
But IE7 hasn’t been sufficiently tested for enterprise yet! j/k don’t worry they’re all on Edge.

goodpoint 5y ago

as user5994461 wrote that's a bit too extreme in the opposite direction. However, most people don't realize that the majority of the software deployed in the world is meant to run for years without getting feature updates. Most production code is running on servers, vehicles, industrial systems, infrastructure, military stuff and so on. Planes and power plants can have an expected lifetime of 40 years. Case in point: the civil infrastructure project https://www.cip-project.org/ https://www.cip-project.org/ plans to maintain a Debian-derived kernel and basic OS and backport security updates for 25 years.

midev 5y ago

> Meanwhile, over here in healthcare, I'm currently carefully evaluating whether to update some software packages from their 2011-release version to their 2015-release version This could partially explain why healthcare IT is some of the worst in the world. Can't imagine the number of vulnerabilities you have from using such outdated tech. From EHR systems, to basic appointment scheduling, to billing and insurance, everything is so poorly built and tedious for the users. Not to mention, healthcare is always falling victim to ransomware, shutting down entire hospital systems. I know you'll say you need to move slow, lives are at risk, etc. But what healthcare IT is doing now certainly doesn't work. So maybe push on the gas a little bit.

stan_rogers 5y ago
Bullshit. When your "minor issue" becomes something that kills people, you test the living bejesus out of it before you think of deploying. When even the slightest change in UI becomes a deadly operator error, you make damned good and sure that those errors won't happen. There are more things that there is no "undo" (or antidote) for than you can imagine. Having things not isolated is the only real problem.
- midev 5y ago
  > Bullshit. When your "minor issue" becomes something that kills people, you test the living bejesus out of it before you think of deploying. At no point did I say not to test before rollouts. > When even the slightest change in UI becomes a deadly operator error Stop being dramatic, because it's part of the problem. Yes, UI's are critical, and these UI's are absolute garbage. You need to improve rapidly, not agonize over bullshit changes in Microsoft Office. https://www.thedoctors.com/articles/electronic-health-records-continue-to-lead-to-medical-malpractice-suits/ https://www.thedoctors.com/articles/electronic-health-record... https://ehrintelligence.com/news/diagnostic-medication-errors-rank-among-most-common-ehr-related-issues https://ehrintelligence.com/news/diagnostic-medication-error... EHR's are killing people because they are so poorly built. To reiterate, what you're doing is not working. > you make damned good and sure that those errors won't happen You're not making sure those errors are not happening, is the point.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

MRI machines run Linux? That's really cool. Linux literally saves lives. I'll never forget that.