4 ms·

> Only 10% of Canadians are opposed to vaccines, so it won't be an unpopular choice. What does “opposed to vaccines” even mean? Vaccines for anybody? Vaccines

by koolba 5y ago

> Only 10% of Canadians are opposed to vaccines, so it won't be an unpopular choice. What does “opposed to vaccines” even mean? Vaccines for anybody? Vaccines for themselves? Mandatory vaccines? I sincerely doubt 10% of even Canada is in favor of mandating everyone be vaccinated to live what was once a normal life. EDIT: I meant that last sentence in reverse, ie doubt that only 10% is against mandatory vaccinations. I’d wager it’s much higher.

ghaff 5y ago
Even in the US, I think you'd find there was significantly greater than 10% support for vaccine mandates for certain activities, jobs, etc.
- khuey 5y ago
  Politico ran a poll that found that 56% of Americans would support a blanket vaccine mandate with essentially no exceptions (https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc5b10000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc..., question POL11_5) so yeah it's way higher than 10%.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I hadn't seen that particular poll but there's apparently a very widespread mood among vaccinated people that any pressure on unvaccinated is fair game to: - Better protect vaccinated people given vaccines aren't 100% - Get things opened back up faster
- vnjfvfg 5y ago
  GP said "everyone" - meaning police showing up at people's doorsteps, pinning them down, and giving them shots.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Mandatory means different things to different people. A few may view mandatory in the holding people down light. Which I assume very few people would be in favor of outside of perhaps very limited situations. But it's more common to view mandatory as something more along the lines of if you don't get vaccinated (barring medical exemptions) fine but a lot of places--perhaps including where you work--will be closed to you.
ls65536 5y ago
Exactly this. I keep seeing so much discussion lately where support for vaccination in general (or for oneself) is being conflated with support for mandatory vaccination (for everyone). These are not the same thing! This all-or-nothing "with us or against us" discourse is really not helpful, and it often serves to shut down any healthy debate about the merits (or drawbacks) of two related but still separate items. And this kind of extreme binary categorization seems to be everywhere lately... - Against some policies of some country's authoritarian regime? You're a racist! - Vote for team blue (red)? You must despise everyone who votes for team red (blue)! - For bike lanes? You're anti-car! - Pro-carbon tax? You hate the economy! - Concerned about men's issues? You must hate women! It's almost as if holding any nuanced view and ability to debate about the many complex situations we face in life means you're more than likely to find yourself despised by those in either of the extreme camps on any given issue, which unfortunately seem to be growing to include more and more people as time goes on. As this unfolds, we're less likely to be able and willing to find compromises, have empathy for, and better understand one another. How are we going to come together to work on solving some very hard problems of the future when we're all just shouting past each other, thinking that anyone who doesn't hold the exact same set of viewpoints as one does on so many varied issues is an idiot?
- ghaff 5y ago
  The conflation is probably not that far off in this case. There are some numbers downthread but I think it likely a significant percentage of vaccinated people are perfectly fine with, for example, United requiring flight personnel to be vaccinated, the many universities requiring vaccination to attend in the fall, events requiring vaccination, and the increasing drumbeat of companies requiring vaccination to enter an office.

by koolba 5y ago

ghaff 5y ago

Even in the US, I think you'd find there was significantly greater than 10% support for vaccine mandates for certain activities, jobs, etc.

khuey 5y ago
Politico ran a poll that found that 56% of Americans would support a blanket vaccine mandate with essentially no exceptions (https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc5b10000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc..., question POL11_5) so yeah it's way higher than 10%.
- ghaff 5y ago
  I hadn't seen that particular poll but there's apparently a very widespread mood among vaccinated people that any pressure on unvaccinated is fair game to: - Better protect vaccinated people given vaccines aren't 100% - Get things opened back up faster
vnjfvfg 5y ago
GP said "everyone" - meaning police showing up at people's doorsteps, pinning them down, and giving them shots.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Mandatory means different things to different people. A few may view mandatory in the holding people down light. Which I assume very few people would be in favor of outside of perhaps very limited situations. But it's more common to view mandatory as something more along the lines of if you don't get vaccinated (barring medical exemptions) fine but a lot of places--perhaps including where you work--will be closed to you.

ls65536 5y ago

Exactly this. I keep seeing so much discussion lately where support for vaccination in general (or for oneself) is being conflated with support for mandatory vaccination (for everyone). These are not the same thing! This all-or-nothing "with us or against us" discourse is really not helpful, and it often serves to shut down any healthy debate about the merits (or drawbacks) of two related but still separate items. And this kind of extreme binary categorization seems to be everywhere lately... - Against some policies of some country's authoritarian regime? You're a racist! - Vote for team blue (red)? You must despise everyone who votes for team red (blue)! - For bike lanes? You're anti-car! - Pro-carbon tax? You hate the economy! - Concerned about men's issues? You must hate women! It's almost as if holding any nuanced view and ability to debate about the many complex situations we face in life means you're more than likely to find yourself despised by those in either of the extreme camps on any given issue, which unfortunately seem to be growing to include more and more people as time goes on. As this unfolds, we're less likely to be able and willing to find compromises, have empathy for, and better understand one another. How are we going to come together to work on solving some very hard problems of the future when we're all just shouting past each other, thinking that anyone who doesn't hold the exact same set of viewpoints as one does on so many varied issues is an idiot?

ghaff 5y ago
The conflation is probably not that far off in this case. There are some numbers downthread but I think it likely a significant percentage of vaccinated people are perfectly fine with, for example, United requiring flight personnel to be vaccinated, the many universities requiring vaccination to attend in the fall, events requiring vaccination, and the increasing drumbeat of companies requiring vaccination to enter an office.