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It's likely because of the election. Trudeau is calling for an election in the next few weeks. By announcing this now, he dares the opposition to say it's the

by mabbo 5y ago

It's likely because of the election. Trudeau is calling for an election in the next few weeks. By announcing this now, he dares the opposition to say it's the wrong move, so that he can say he's protecting Canadians and the conservatives won't. Keep me in charge to stay safe. Only 10% of Canadians are opposed to vaccines, so it won't be an unpopular choice. And if the opposition says it's the right move, he can say "even the conservatives agree with my decision, clearly I'm doing the right things". Edit: and to be clear, I think it's the right move regardless.

totony 5y ago
At least in quebec vaccine passports are seen in a super bad light (at least to most people i have interacted with). But yeah it's for sure an election tactic, hiding more important discussion like how they threw away their promise to reform the electoral system (EDIT: Probably because it makes them lose [1]) [1] https://theconversation.com/what-the-canadian-election-results-would-have-looked-like-with-electoral-reform-125848 https://theconversation.com/what-the-canadian-election-resul...
- ckdarby 5y ago
  Complete opposite interactions for vaccine passports and I live in Saint-Remi, Quebec.
- graeme 5y ago
  Do you hang out in an antivax crowd? Vaccine passport are enormously popular in Canada. https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/majority-support-vaccine-passports-for-variety-of-indoor-outdoor-activities https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/majority-support-vacc... I couldn’t find Quebec specific data, but I live here and haven’t seen anything to suggest people view them differently.
  - totony 5y ago
    I'm not sure of their vaccination status, and to be fair my sample size is small because it's been announced recently and there's only so much people you can interact with. That said, we've had a protest here on day 1 and the people I have spoken to are more against a perceived overreach than of the vaccine, although I am young and most non-vaccinated people are in my age group (because of the side effects afai can tell). I'm weary of polls, especially those paid for by news networks, but even then this was done in may, before the variants became well know/transmission more understood/efficiency more know.
  - jorgesborges 5y ago
    Not everyone who opposes a vaccine passport belongs to an "antivax" crowd. I've encountered a lot of a variance on the issue, often in surprising contexts. I was at the dentist last week and after vetting me mildly she explained there's a faction of their practice who oppose mandatory vaccines. She said they formed a group to share and discuss the issue and engage with other health care professionals who may not be as politically astute.
    - graeme 5y ago
      No but about 80% of adults are vaccinated and about 70% in Canada support vaccine passport. So there isn’t much wiggle room. Unless a good swath of the unvaccinated support vaccine passports….
      - jorgesborges 5y ago
        That's true. I suppose my only skepticism surrounds the 70% polling in favor of passports. That seems very high. But my skepticism rests on anecdotal experiences so that doesn't mean much -- and admittedly I haven't looked closely into the polling data. But I am frustrated with the smoothing over the nuances of the issue by lumping people into a certain crowd. I think there's merit in an anti-passport position without falling into lunacy.
      - AdrianB1 5y ago
        I am fully vaccinated and I am trying to convince all the people I interact with face to face to vaccinate, but I still don't want to send to Gulag all the people who refuse. Even if 99% support something, it does not automatically make it right.
    - moistly 5y ago
      One notes that in BC/Western Canada, dentists gathered en masse at a convention while case rates were cranking upward. A shit-ton of them caught covid. One also notes that for decades, they’ve been working on people’s mouths, spraying nasty oral bacteria into the air, without wearing masks. What I’m saying here is that dentists have never been particularly intelligent about their own health safety.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
koolba 5y ago
> Only 10% of Canadians are opposed to vaccines, so it won't be an unpopular choice. What does “opposed to vaccines” even mean? Vaccines for anybody? Vaccines for themselves? Mandatory vaccines? I sincerely doubt 10% of even Canada is in favor of mandating everyone be vaccinated to live what was once a normal life. EDIT: I meant that last sentence in reverse, ie doubt that only 10% is against mandatory vaccinations. I’d wager it’s much higher.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Even in the US, I think you'd find there was significantly greater than 10% support for vaccine mandates for certain activities, jobs, etc.
  - khuey 5y ago
    Politico ran a poll that found that 56% of Americans would support a blanket vaccine mandate with essentially no exceptions (https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc5b10000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc..., question POL11_5) so yeah it's way higher than 10%.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      I hadn't seen that particular poll but there's apparently a very widespread mood among vaccinated people that any pressure on unvaccinated is fair game to: - Better protect vaccinated people given vaccines aren't 100% - Get things opened back up faster
  - vnjfvfg 5y ago
    GP said "everyone" - meaning police showing up at people's doorsteps, pinning them down, and giving them shots.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      Mandatory means different things to different people. A few may view mandatory in the holding people down light. Which I assume very few people would be in favor of outside of perhaps very limited situations. But it's more common to view mandatory as something more along the lines of if you don't get vaccinated (barring medical exemptions) fine but a lot of places--perhaps including where you work--will be closed to you.
wyck 5y ago
40% of the Canadian population is unvaccinated, approximately 15 million people.
- ckdarby 5y ago
  71.744% of the Canadian population has received at least one dose 82.404% of Canadians 12+ have received at least one dose Source: https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html
  - ghaff 5y ago
    So the >80% is for 12 and older. https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccination-coverage/ https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccination-cover... For the whole population, it's a bit over 60% so the "misinformation" you're referring to is approximately correct.
    - ckdarby 5y ago
      No, the numbers I gave are the numbers for receiving the first dose. OP did not say fully vaccinated but instead having been vaccinated. Are you not vaccinated once you have one dose? If not, what verb would you use after receiving your first dose?
      - ghaff 5y ago
        You're being pedantic. "Vaccinated" as it's used, for example, by organizations requiring vaccinations is to have had both doses (in the case of the 2 dose vaccines) and wait the two weeks or whatever after the second dose. At that point, you're considered vaccinated and not before.
    - plebianRube 5y ago
      What happens for families with children under 12 who want to travel by train or air? I didn't see anything specific mentioned for this unvaccinated group.
barbazoo 5y ago
You're probably right. There's also a push to make the vaccine mandatory for federal and healthcare workers. Somehow it rubs me the wrong way for a not fully approved vaccine to be made mandatory though. Don't get me wrong, I'm doubly vaccinated and I believe everyone should be. But should we force people? In a country where 82%/72% (1) of eligible people are already vaccinated once/twice? (1) https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html
- gdilla 5y ago
  Except they're not going to be forced? You don't have a right to be employed. You may be able to wfh or find a job that will allow that. But being required to be vaxxed to go to the office seems reasonable to provide a safe work place.
  - yostrovs 5y ago
    You meant: "...being required to be vaxxed to go to the office seems reasonable to provide a safe work place for the unvaccinated."

by mabbo 5y ago

totony 5y ago

At least in quebec vaccine passports are seen in a super bad light (at least to most people i have interacted with). But yeah it's for sure an election tactic, hiding more important discussion like how they threw away their promise to reform the electoral system (EDIT: Probably because it makes them lose [1]) [1] https://theconversation.com/what-the-canadian-election-results-would-have-looked-like-with-electoral-reform-125848 https://theconversation.com/what-the-canadian-election-resul...

ckdarby 5y ago
Complete opposite interactions for vaccine passports and I live in Saint-Remi, Quebec.
graeme 5y ago
Do you hang out in an antivax crowd? Vaccine passport are enormously popular in Canada. https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/majority-support-vaccine-passports-for-variety-of-indoor-outdoor-activities https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/majority-support-vacc... I couldn’t find Quebec specific data, but I live here and haven’t seen anything to suggest people view them differently.
- totony 5y ago
  I'm not sure of their vaccination status, and to be fair my sample size is small because it's been announced recently and there's only so much people you can interact with. That said, we've had a protest here on day 1 and the people I have spoken to are more against a perceived overreach than of the vaccine, although I am young and most non-vaccinated people are in my age group (because of the side effects afai can tell). I'm weary of polls, especially those paid for by news networks, but even then this was done in may, before the variants became well know/transmission more understood/efficiency more know.
- jorgesborges 5y ago
  Not everyone who opposes a vaccine passport belongs to an "antivax" crowd. I've encountered a lot of a variance on the issue, often in surprising contexts. I was at the dentist last week and after vetting me mildly she explained there's a faction of their practice who oppose mandatory vaccines. She said they formed a group to share and discuss the issue and engage with other health care professionals who may not be as politically astute.
  - graeme 5y ago
    No but about 80% of adults are vaccinated and about 70% in Canada support vaccine passport. So there isn’t much wiggle room. Unless a good swath of the unvaccinated support vaccine passports….
    - jorgesborges 5y ago
      That's true. I suppose my only skepticism surrounds the 70% polling in favor of passports. That seems very high. But my skepticism rests on anecdotal experiences so that doesn't mean much -- and admittedly I haven't looked closely into the polling data. But I am frustrated with the smoothing over the nuances of the issue by lumping people into a certain crowd. I think there's merit in an anti-passport position without falling into lunacy.
    - AdrianB1 5y ago
      I am fully vaccinated and I am trying to convince all the people I interact with face to face to vaccinate, but I still don't want to send to Gulag all the people who refuse. Even if 99% support something, it does not automatically make it right.
  - moistly 5y ago
    One notes that in BC/Western Canada, dentists gathered en masse at a convention while case rates were cranking upward. A shit-ton of them caught covid. One also notes that for decades, they’ve been working on people’s mouths, spraying nasty oral bacteria into the air, without wearing masks. What I’m saying here is that dentists have never been particularly intelligent about their own health safety.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

koolba 5y ago

> Only 10% of Canadians are opposed to vaccines, so it won't be an unpopular choice. What does “opposed to vaccines” even mean? Vaccines for anybody? Vaccines for themselves? Mandatory vaccines? I sincerely doubt 10% of even Canada is in favor of mandating everyone be vaccinated to live what was once a normal life. EDIT: I meant that last sentence in reverse, ie doubt that only 10% is against mandatory vaccinations. I’d wager it’s much higher.

ghaff 5y ago
Even in the US, I think you'd find there was significantly greater than 10% support for vaccine mandates for certain activities, jobs, etc.
- khuey 5y ago
  Politico ran a poll that found that 56% of Americans would support a blanket vaccine mandate with essentially no exceptions (https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc5b10000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017b-3299-d185-a97b-3f9fc..., question POL11_5) so yeah it's way higher than 10%.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I hadn't seen that particular poll but there's apparently a very widespread mood among vaccinated people that any pressure on unvaccinated is fair game to: - Better protect vaccinated people given vaccines aren't 100% - Get things opened back up faster
- vnjfvfg 5y ago
  GP said "everyone" - meaning police showing up at people's doorsteps, pinning them down, and giving them shots.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Mandatory means different things to different people. A few may view mandatory in the holding people down light. Which I assume very few people would be in favor of outside of perhaps very limited situations. But it's more common to view mandatory as something more along the lines of if you don't get vaccinated (barring medical exemptions) fine but a lot of places--perhaps including where you work--will be closed to you.

wyck 5y ago

40% of the Canadian population is unvaccinated, approximately 15 million people.

ckdarby 5y ago
71.744% of the Canadian population has received at least one dose 82.404% of Canadians 12+ have received at least one dose Source: https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html
- ghaff 5y ago
  So the >80% is for 12 and older. https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccination-coverage/ https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccination-cover... For the whole population, it's a bit over 60% so the "misinformation" you're referring to is approximately correct.
  - ckdarby 5y ago
    No, the numbers I gave are the numbers for receiving the first dose. OP did not say fully vaccinated but instead having been vaccinated. Are you not vaccinated once you have one dose? If not, what verb would you use after receiving your first dose?
    - ghaff 5y ago
      You're being pedantic. "Vaccinated" as it's used, for example, by organizations requiring vaccinations is to have had both doses (in the case of the 2 dose vaccines) and wait the two weeks or whatever after the second dose. At that point, you're considered vaccinated and not before.
  - plebianRube 5y ago
    What happens for families with children under 12 who want to travel by train or air? I didn't see anything specific mentioned for this unvaccinated group.

barbazoo 5y ago

You're probably right. There's also a push to make the vaccine mandatory for federal and healthcare workers. Somehow it rubs me the wrong way for a not fully approved vaccine to be made mandatory though. Don't get me wrong, I'm doubly vaccinated and I believe everyone should be. But should we force people? In a country where 82%/72% (1) of eligible people are already vaccinated once/twice? (1) https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html

gdilla 5y ago
Except they're not going to be forced? You don't have a right to be employed. You may be able to wfh or find a job that will allow that. But being required to be vaxxed to go to the office seems reasonable to provide a safe work place.
- yostrovs 5y ago
  You meant: "...being required to be vaxxed to go to the office seems reasonable to provide a safe work place for the unvaccinated."