4 ms·

IANAL but I have to imagine that one simple rule would bring back the validity of patents as an innovation protector: If you have a patent, you MUST have a pro

IANAL but I have to imagine that one simple rule would bring back the validity of patents as an innovation protector: If you have a patent, you MUST have a product or be working on a product using the technology in question or you cannot litigate others using your idea. Patents are required to protect the truly innovative individuals and groups from huge corporations who can, as you said, just steamroll them and steal ideas. I'm afraid it will get a lot worse before we finally get this fixed, though.

cfgvjkljhgfb 15y ago
Doesn't work for non-software patents that need infrastructure. Say I have an idea that will improve digital cameras. I need to sell the idea to Canon/Nikon etc, there is no chance of me building the invention myself. Patents are the only way I can discuss it with them without them just being able to copy the idea.
MrVitaliy 15y ago
That rule is easily circumvented. Just write a 10 line python script that references the patent. Release it as MyPatentApp version 1.0 and we're back to litigation square 1. I believe that in such a quickly changing engineering landscape as software, best way to fix patent troll problem is to make software patents expire in 2-3 years.
- amikula 15y ago
  I completely agree that software patents should expire in 2-3 years. Even a 2 year advantage is an eternity in the software market.
- rkalla 15y ago
  Hrrmmm... good point. So all that would do is require patent trolls to keep around a small development team to mockup wrappers to whatever IP they buy up to show they wrote it? I suppose the due-diligence requires to disprove shenanigans wouldn't scale and could easily be gamed by reams and reams of "source code" that actually did nothing described in the patent but was sufficiently complex so as to confuse. This makes me think your approach to expiring them after a short period of time is the right approach to start with.
- paulgb 15y ago
  I've heard an (apocryphal) story about a bubble-gum brand that protected an otherwise unused trade name by manufacturing and selling one stick of gum under that brand each year.
- r0s 15y ago
  Agreed, shorter time spans are the way to go: I'd propose an even quicker expiration if the patent is sold/transferred, to curtail hoarding.
justinsb 15y ago
In this case the patent is related to PacketVideo's business.
naner 15y ago
If you have a patent, you MUST have a product or be working on a product using the technology in question or you cannot litigate others using your idea. That doesn't help in the case where non-innovative patents are used in an anti-competitive manner. Such as the patents Apple is asserting against HTC.
- mcao 15y ago
  Sure, it may not help in THAT case but it would help with people hoarding patents for the sole purpose of suing others. There isn't going to be a single solution that solves the patent problem. It will be a combination of rules like 1) you must have a product on the market using the patent 2) no business method patents 3) software patents are limited to 2-3 years etc etc
  - moe 15y ago
    The problem with "must have product in the market" is the same as with the idea of fixing the domain name system by adding a requirement of "use it or lose it". Who gets to decide what "having a product in the market" means? It's impossible to generalize this to an objective set of rules. Thus we'd soon be back on square 1 (read: in the court room).
napierzaza 15y ago
Not really. Firstly because not every invention can so easily be produced. What if I patent something to do with space travel? What if it's something that isn't simply a software paradigm? And if it is just something that can be done in software, why not create some semi-working version to prove it's in production? Or are you going to add that it has to sell? Or be appealing? What if you say you have a version for sale but it's a million dollars a unit? That law is so simple I'm sure there are even more ways to get around it than there are real inventors who will be shafted by it just because they don't own the facilities to produce it enough to satisfy you.
mikle 15y ago
I don't think this rule is sufficient. Beside the other points people already raised, you still have the issue of people patenting obvious stuff with prior art (like the recent Apple vs HTC case, for example).
ycombiefan 15y ago
URANALBUTT- no1 knows wtf your acronym means, what, that saved you two seconds of typing? type these things out

cfgvjkljhgfb 15y ago

Doesn't work for non-software patents that need infrastructure. Say I have an idea that will improve digital cameras. I need to sell the idea to Canon/Nikon etc, there is no chance of me building the invention myself. Patents are the only way I can discuss it with them without them just being able to copy the idea.

MrVitaliy 15y ago

That rule is easily circumvented. Just write a 10 line python script that references the patent. Release it as MyPatentApp version 1.0 and we're back to litigation square 1. I believe that in such a quickly changing engineering landscape as software, best way to fix patent troll problem is to make software patents expire in 2-3 years.

amikula 15y ago
I completely agree that software patents should expire in 2-3 years. Even a 2 year advantage is an eternity in the software market.
rkalla 15y ago
Hrrmmm... good point. So all that would do is require patent trolls to keep around a small development team to mockup wrappers to whatever IP they buy up to show they wrote it? I suppose the due-diligence requires to disprove shenanigans wouldn't scale and could easily be gamed by reams and reams of "source code" that actually did nothing described in the patent but was sufficiently complex so as to confuse. This makes me think your approach to expiring them after a short period of time is the right approach to start with.
paulgb 15y ago
I've heard an (apocryphal) story about a bubble-gum brand that protected an otherwise unused trade name by manufacturing and selling one stick of gum under that brand each year.
r0s 15y ago
Agreed, shorter time spans are the way to go: I'd propose an even quicker expiration if the patent is sold/transferred, to curtail hoarding.

justinsb 15y ago

In this case the patent is related to PacketVideo's business.

naner 15y ago

If you have a patent, you MUST have a product or be working on a product using the technology in question or you cannot litigate others using your idea. That doesn't help in the case where non-innovative patents are used in an anti-competitive manner. Such as the patents Apple is asserting against HTC.

mcao 15y ago
Sure, it may not help in THAT case but it would help with people hoarding patents for the sole purpose of suing others. There isn't going to be a single solution that solves the patent problem. It will be a combination of rules like 1) you must have a product on the market using the patent 2) no business method patents 3) software patents are limited to 2-3 years etc etc
- moe 15y ago
  The problem with "must have product in the market" is the same as with the idea of fixing the domain name system by adding a requirement of "use it or lose it". Who gets to decide what "having a product in the market" means? It's impossible to generalize this to an objective set of rules. Thus we'd soon be back on square 1 (read: in the court room).

napierzaza 15y ago

Not really. Firstly because not every invention can so easily be produced. What if I patent something to do with space travel? What if it's something that isn't simply a software paradigm? And if it is just something that can be done in software, why not create some semi-working version to prove it's in production? Or are you going to add that it has to sell? Or be appealing? What if you say you have a version for sale but it's a million dollars a unit? That law is so simple I'm sure there are even more ways to get around it than there are real inventors who will be shafted by it just because they don't own the facilities to produce it enough to satisfy you.

mikle 15y ago

I don't think this rule is sufficient. Beside the other points people already raised, you still have the issue of people patenting obvious stuff with prior art (like the recent Apple vs HTC case, for example).

ycombiefan 15y ago

URANALBUTT- no1 knows wtf your acronym means, what, that saved you two seconds of typing? type these things out