4 ms·

Ask HN: Are you reconsidering your upcoming Mac purchase?

readonthegoapp 5y ago
I was legit planning on getting a new macbook air within about the next week - but I just thought of the AppleSpy thing, and that's hella creepy. Yes, you could make the argument that Big Corp already knows _way_ more about me than whatever new info apple would get, and that Big Corp already knows me _way_ better than I know myself (obv), but still...this seems too China-like. Like Double XX Posse said -- not gonna be able to doot!
Erikun 5y ago
No, but I am thinking more about if I should stop using cloud services, and not just Apples.
asplake 5y ago
No. It continues to just work as expected, and I trust it more than the alternatives
ryan-duve 5y ago
I am. I bought my first new laptop last year, a System76 Galago Pro, and I love it. I've always wanted to support a Linux-first company and have hardware specifically assembled with Linux in mind, and I got this thing fully upgraded so it's a beast at a fraction of the cost of a similarly-spec'd Macbook Pro. However... some stuff just... is. For example: - I have 2 USB-C ports, but only one of them can do external video. - The USB drive can't provide enough power to my external HD, so I just don't use it. - Sometimes my Bluetooth headphones don't connect, and the only reliable way to get them to work is to reboot. - I'm on an external monitor 90% of the time, but about once a week the laptop doesn't wake the monitor and I can't get the laptop screen back on without hard rebooting. - The dedicated GPU is nice for CUDA programming, but every time I try to use it the fans are so loud it disrupts the household. - I only tried "GPU gaming" on it once, and the fans are louder than the speakers so the only way to do it is with headphones. - The wrong keys were put on the laptop, e.g., "INS" does a print screen, "Pause" moves a page up, and so on. It all technically works but, ugh. I won't need to replace the laptop for over a year from now, but that's about how long I like to do research on this type of stuff. I started considering a MBP, which is what I use for work, but I'm not totally sold. Between their snafu last year where an Apple server went down and nobody could open any desktop program at all, to the recent hard drive scanning/reporting technology they're rolling out, to their total disregard for standards such as removing basic ports, I think I might actually prefer the Galago problems. I'm interested to hear details if anyone else has made a similar decision between laptops like the ones I am considering for my next purchase.
mbjdesign 5y ago
I bought an M1 at release and in past 6 months have bought a new Apple TV, a HomePod Mini and a number of HomeKit accessories. My wife got a 12 Mini recently when her 7 Plus was smashed and I had planned on buying a new iPhone this autumn to replace my 7 Plus. These are all exceptional purchases as I rarely buy this much tech at once, but it was part of a commitment to Swift and native iOS and macOS development as I felt their on-device computing and hardware advantage was a strong reason to try something other than my predominantly backend web development. I’m now conflicted. I’m not sure whether I’ll go ahead with my planned purchases and career change. I believe in fixing things rather than walking away, but I think my agency as a developer (even if I worked directly for Apple) is limited. I probably hold far more power as a customer, and if past-Apple is indicative of future-Apple, it’ll be money that prompts them to reconsider decisions like these. I’d happily move to working with other systems, I already run a dual-booting PC for some of my other work and quite like the idea of managing photos on my own server. Media like music and films is a harder issue as I’ve bought around £1500 worth of films on iTunes over the years and lost my music library when switching from iTunes Match to Apple Music. Another factor is that my family (parents, grandparents, etc) are all now used to FaceTime and asking them to use an open source alternative would be non-trivial. All this to say “I’m not sure”. I don’t think they’ve done enough yet to warrant knee-jerk abandonment but I am watching closely, researching alternatives and holding off on any more investment (financial or education) in their ecosystem until I’m confident one way or the other.
- readonthegoapp 5y ago
  I hadn't thought this far ahead yet In part because I don't have a personal mac though I do use one for work Can I go to jail? I read a lot I've been following the innocence project on and off for 30 years I see every NYT headline of some incredible story of some guy getting off death row after 25 years They were always obviously innocent but it didn't matter Three Philly cops just got charged for perjury I think its scary This is a diff arg than privacy I'm white so I got that going for me But I've also tried to be politically active tho never successful -- fortunately for me personally Didn't someone just get arrested for downloading some paper?
azalemeth 5y ago
Frankly, yes. Linux has just improved so much that I'm tempted to make the jump and have it as a daily driver. I'm still uncertain, but I haven't moved off 10.14 and don't like many of the directions that big Sur went in -- I think it's more likely I'll get a fancy, Linux first laptop and keep my rMBP around to ease the transition. The whole spyware thing is the final nail in the coffin, really. The success of the M1 had pushed my feelings in the other direction, but I'm now back on the other side of the fence.
phendrenad2 5y ago
Considering getting my company to buy me a desktop Linux machine instead of a Macbook upgrade.
akg_67 5y ago
I am waiting for Apple to release Mx version of 15”+ screen MacBook Pro to replace my 2012 rMBP. I am too old, my eyes are no longer good enough to use small screens, and no longer have patience to deal with little annoyances. While waiting, I have tried to use smaller screen MacBook and Windows laptops, none still have the combination of features, cleanliness, aesthetic, and ease of use and maintenance, a MBP offers.
high_derivative 5y ago
Yes, it's the end of the road with me for Apple products. Might go for Pixel 6 + GrapheneOS, and Dell XPS instead of MBP. I am happy with their timing because I would have otherwise bought an iPhone 13 and be really annoyed if they announced their spyware right after.
cpach 5y ago
Nope. It’s the only personal computers I really like. And I truly appreciate the fact that the hardware and the OS is from the same company. Only the Surface can rival that, but I’m not a fan of the Windows 10 UI.
daviddever23box 5y ago
Waiting on a large-display iMac, only because my eyes could use the larger canvas. M1 MacBook Air is class-leading, and there is no Wintel equivalent of the 24” iMac. There are plenty of imperfect elements within the Apple ecosystem, but hardware is not one of them. iCloud (excluding third-party storage backend) is a complete ecosystem; a sufficient parity replacement would take a decade to commercialize. If you want a sufficiently-decent Linux or FreeBSD hardware ecosystem, call the Qualcomms of the world to task for continuing to make self-service wireless drivers a PitA. Ubuntu remains the most widely-supported option. As for desktop development, Linux is an embarrassment; Flutter is your only hope. Look and feel should never be second-class; shave your neck-beard and start taking the native presentation layer seriously.
Nextgrid 5y ago
Yes, but not for the recent privacy-hostile announcement (though that obviously doesn't help). Since Big Sur (and to a certain extent Catalina) it's clear that the Mac is moving away from being a work machine suitable for professionals to create things into a toy for consumers to consume media on. It started with these new "apps" such as Music, Videos and News which look unfinished given how empty they are (especially comparing to their iTunes predecessor), completely out of place (as some are just ports of iOS apps), and the few features that are in there have bugs or don't behave like you'd expect. In Big Sur there appears to be a Stocks app, that somehow asks me to accept a privacy policy and tries to connect to Apple News behind the scenes (which I denied). Is it for people who are too stupid to look it up in the browser? The Big Sur UI is also an absolute insult. The constant nagging about iCloud is tiring, and that feature is outright dangerous for anyone working with confidential data. Did you know that having iCloud Drive enabled and opening a CSV file in Numbers will silently upload it to iCloud in the background? I used to like Mac because the UX was nice and as long as you gave them their money, Apple seemed to respect you and get the fuck out of your way. I don't remember Mac OS being actively hostile against the user until the Catalina era where Apple transitioned to their services approach, but I can't see every buying into these services for 2 reasons: 1) they are still so behind the competition - see Apple Music vs Spotify, iCloud Drive vs OneDrive. 2) I don't want my data siloed into apps - I want the option to access it on the web 3) I don't want the auth to said service depend on the entire machine being logged in. You can't easily log into 2 iCloud accounts for example because it's not just a client app where you can run 2 instances, it's built into the system Finally, if you get a Mac and install something like Little Snitch (a firewall) you'll be scared of how the machine is constantly pinging Apple about something.
version_five 5y ago
I use linux for most stuff. However for MS Office (or last time I checked, using GSuite in a browser without severe memory and CPU issues), it's effectively a two party system between Windows and Mac. And like any such system, you usually have to grit your teeth and go with the lesser evil, even if you dislike both. For me that's still Mac
- lostdog 5y ago
  Ditto. I just switched from linux to Mac because of Google Meet being too slow, and it turns out Docs and Sheets are now usable again too. I wish I could break into Google HQ and replace all the devs' laptops with an older linux models.
neverminder 5y ago
For those who are looking for alternatives - Dell's Precision line is top notch with official Linux support. I have the 7750 myself and I know people who have switched to it from macs and have nothing but praise for it. It has a manual detailing how to replace any part of the laptop. Taking longevity to a whole another level. The 7xxx line's thermals are some of the best in the world, if not the best. Other brands have seen Dell's success and have been making noises about Linux support as well, although with little actual substance, like no option to select the OS on their webshops. I'm looking at you, Lenovo.
- aborsy 5y ago
  7xxx models are too heavy for a laptop. You might as well get a portable PC! I heard precision line is very similar to XPS, except costs more because it targets business users. The build might be slightly better, with official Linux support. For individuals, I would probably consider XPS 13 or 15.
  - neverminder 5y ago
    7xxx is a workstation, so of course it's heavy if you compare it to ultrabooks. It is effectively a portable PC, so I don't understand your point. 7xxx is not "very similar" to XPS, it's a completely different chassis. 5xxx line however shares the same chassis with XPS - it's thin and light, but it's thermals are not even in the same league as 7xxx. So to summarize, if you want a beast of a workstation - get the 7xxx, if you want an ultrabook - it's 5xxx or it's cheaper, watered down version, the XPS.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
KiDD 5y ago
No
sbacic 5y ago
Yes - I was very close to pulling the trigger and buying one of the new M1 Macs. It seemed like Apple had finally delivered a device worth paying top dollar for. Then this fiasco with iCloud scanning happened. I don't mind the invasion of privacy so much as the idea that, even after paying so much money, the device is still not really "yours".
csomar 5y ago
I moved last year to Linux and it was a worthwhile decision (though it took some time to re-configure stuff and Linux does make some things difficult). I will only purchase an Mx macbook if they get proper Liux support. I think the machines could be great but I am done with macOS. There are multiple worthwhile machines that could run Linux. (gamers are underrated and AMD works great with Linux so far) As far as the smartphone goes, I'm stuck with the iPhone now as there are no alternatives. I was considering an iPad Pro but I am postponing that for now until this whole saga clears out.

I was legit planning on getting a new macbook air within about the next week - but I just thought of the AppleSpy thing, and that's hella creepy. Yes, you could make the argument that Big Corp already knows _way_ more about me than whatever new info apple would get, and that Big Corp already knows me _way_ better than I know myself (obv), but still...this seems too China-like. Like Double XX Posse said -- not gonna be able to doot!

Erikun 5y ago

No, but I am thinking more about if I should stop using cloud services, and not just Apples.

asplake 5y ago

No. It continues to just work as expected, and I trust it more than the alternatives

ryan-duve 5y ago

I am. I bought my first new laptop last year, a System76 Galago Pro, and I love it. I've always wanted to support a Linux-first company and have hardware specifically assembled with Linux in mind, and I got this thing fully upgraded so it's a beast at a fraction of the cost of a similarly-spec'd Macbook Pro. However... some stuff just... is. For example: - I have 2 USB-C ports, but only one of them can do external video. - The USB drive can't provide enough power to my external HD, so I just don't use it. - Sometimes my Bluetooth headphones don't connect, and the only reliable way to get them to work is to reboot. - I'm on an external monitor 90% of the time, but about once a week the laptop doesn't wake the monitor and I can't get the laptop screen back on without hard rebooting. - The dedicated GPU is nice for CUDA programming, but every time I try to use it the fans are so loud it disrupts the household. - I only tried "GPU gaming" on it once, and the fans are louder than the speakers so the only way to do it is with headphones. - The wrong keys were put on the laptop, e.g., "INS" does a print screen, "Pause" moves a page up, and so on. It all technically works but, ugh. I won't need to replace the laptop for over a year from now, but that's about how long I like to do research on this type of stuff. I started considering a MBP, which is what I use for work, but I'm not totally sold. Between their snafu last year where an Apple server went down and nobody could open any desktop program at all, to the recent hard drive scanning/reporting technology they're rolling out, to their total disregard for standards such as removing basic ports, I think I might actually prefer the Galago problems. I'm interested to hear details if anyone else has made a similar decision between laptops like the ones I am considering for my next purchase.

mbjdesign 5y ago

I bought an M1 at release and in past 6 months have bought a new Apple TV, a HomePod Mini and a number of HomeKit accessories. My wife got a 12 Mini recently when her 7 Plus was smashed and I had planned on buying a new iPhone this autumn to replace my 7 Plus. These are all exceptional purchases as I rarely buy this much tech at once, but it was part of a commitment to Swift and native iOS and macOS development as I felt their on-device computing and hardware advantage was a strong reason to try something other than my predominantly backend web development. I’m now conflicted. I’m not sure whether I’ll go ahead with my planned purchases and career change. I believe in fixing things rather than walking away, but I think my agency as a developer (even if I worked directly for Apple) is limited. I probably hold far more power as a customer, and if past-Apple is indicative of future-Apple, it’ll be money that prompts them to reconsider decisions like these. I’d happily move to working with other systems, I already run a dual-booting PC for some of my other work and quite like the idea of managing photos on my own server. Media like music and films is a harder issue as I’ve bought around £1500 worth of films on iTunes over the years and lost my music library when switching from iTunes Match to Apple Music. Another factor is that my family (parents, grandparents, etc) are all now used to FaceTime and asking them to use an open source alternative would be non-trivial. All this to say “I’m not sure”. I don’t think they’ve done enough yet to warrant knee-jerk abandonment but I am watching closely, researching alternatives and holding off on any more investment (financial or education) in their ecosystem until I’m confident one way or the other.

readonthegoapp 5y ago
I hadn't thought this far ahead yet In part because I don't have a personal mac though I do use one for work Can I go to jail? I read a lot I've been following the innocence project on and off for 30 years I see every NYT headline of some incredible story of some guy getting off death row after 25 years They were always obviously innocent but it didn't matter Three Philly cops just got charged for perjury I think its scary This is a diff arg than privacy I'm white so I got that going for me But I've also tried to be politically active tho never successful -- fortunately for me personally Didn't someone just get arrested for downloading some paper?

azalemeth 5y ago

Frankly, yes. Linux has just improved so much that I'm tempted to make the jump and have it as a daily driver. I'm still uncertain, but I haven't moved off 10.14 and don't like many of the directions that big Sur went in -- I think it's more likely I'll get a fancy, Linux first laptop and keep my rMBP around to ease the transition. The whole spyware thing is the final nail in the coffin, really. The success of the M1 had pushed my feelings in the other direction, but I'm now back on the other side of the fence.

phendrenad2 5y ago

Considering getting my company to buy me a desktop Linux machine instead of a Macbook upgrade.

akg_67 5y ago

I am waiting for Apple to release Mx version of 15”+ screen MacBook Pro to replace my 2012 rMBP. I am too old, my eyes are no longer good enough to use small screens, and no longer have patience to deal with little annoyances. While waiting, I have tried to use smaller screen MacBook and Windows laptops, none still have the combination of features, cleanliness, aesthetic, and ease of use and maintenance, a MBP offers.

high_derivative 5y ago

Yes, it's the end of the road with me for Apple products. Might go for Pixel 6 + GrapheneOS, and Dell XPS instead of MBP. I am happy with their timing because I would have otherwise bought an iPhone 13 and be really annoyed if they announced their spyware right after.

cpach 5y ago

Nope. It’s the only personal computers I really like. And I truly appreciate the fact that the hardware and the OS is from the same company. Only the Surface can rival that, but I’m not a fan of the Windows 10 UI.

daviddever23box 5y ago

Waiting on a large-display iMac, only because my eyes could use the larger canvas. M1 MacBook Air is class-leading, and there is no Wintel equivalent of the 24” iMac. There are plenty of imperfect elements within the Apple ecosystem, but hardware is not one of them. iCloud (excluding third-party storage backend) is a complete ecosystem; a sufficient parity replacement would take a decade to commercialize. If you want a sufficiently-decent Linux or FreeBSD hardware ecosystem, call the Qualcomms of the world to task for continuing to make self-service wireless drivers a PitA. Ubuntu remains the most widely-supported option. As for desktop development, Linux is an embarrassment; Flutter is your only hope. Look and feel should never be second-class; shave your neck-beard and start taking the native presentation layer seriously.

Nextgrid 5y ago

Yes, but not for the recent privacy-hostile announcement (though that obviously doesn't help). Since Big Sur (and to a certain extent Catalina) it's clear that the Mac is moving away from being a work machine suitable for professionals to create things into a toy for consumers to consume media on. It started with these new "apps" such as Music, Videos and News which look unfinished given how empty they are (especially comparing to their iTunes predecessor), completely out of place (as some are just ports of iOS apps), and the few features that are in there have bugs or don't behave like you'd expect. In Big Sur there appears to be a Stocks app, that somehow asks me to accept a privacy policy and tries to connect to Apple News behind the scenes (which I denied). Is it for people who are too stupid to look it up in the browser? The Big Sur UI is also an absolute insult. The constant nagging about iCloud is tiring, and that feature is outright dangerous for anyone working with confidential data. Did you know that having iCloud Drive enabled and opening a CSV file in Numbers will silently upload it to iCloud in the background? I used to like Mac because the UX was nice and as long as you gave them their money, Apple seemed to respect you and get the fuck out of your way. I don't remember Mac OS being actively hostile against the user until the Catalina era where Apple transitioned to their services approach, but I can't see every buying into these services for 2 reasons: 1) they are still so behind the competition - see Apple Music vs Spotify, iCloud Drive vs OneDrive. 2) I don't want my data siloed into apps - I want the option to access it on the web 3) I don't want the auth to said service depend on the entire machine being logged in. You can't easily log into 2 iCloud accounts for example because it's not just a client app where you can run 2 instances, it's built into the system Finally, if you get a Mac and install something like Little Snitch (a firewall) you'll be scared of how the machine is constantly pinging Apple about something.

version_five 5y ago

I use linux for most stuff. However for MS Office (or last time I checked, using GSuite in a browser without severe memory and CPU issues), it's effectively a two party system between Windows and Mac. And like any such system, you usually have to grit your teeth and go with the lesser evil, even if you dislike both. For me that's still Mac

lostdog 5y ago
Ditto. I just switched from linux to Mac because of Google Meet being too slow, and it turns out Docs and Sheets are now usable again too. I wish I could break into Google HQ and replace all the devs' laptops with an older linux models.

neverminder 5y ago

For those who are looking for alternatives - Dell's Precision line is top notch with official Linux support. I have the 7750 myself and I know people who have switched to it from macs and have nothing but praise for it. It has a manual detailing how to replace any part of the laptop. Taking longevity to a whole another level. The 7xxx line's thermals are some of the best in the world, if not the best. Other brands have seen Dell's success and have been making noises about Linux support as well, although with little actual substance, like no option to select the OS on their webshops. I'm looking at you, Lenovo.

aborsy 5y ago
7xxx models are too heavy for a laptop. You might as well get a portable PC! I heard precision line is very similar to XPS, except costs more because it targets business users. The build might be slightly better, with official Linux support. For individuals, I would probably consider XPS 13 or 15.
- neverminder 5y ago
  7xxx is a workstation, so of course it's heavy if you compare it to ultrabooks. It is effectively a portable PC, so I don't understand your point. 7xxx is not "very similar" to XPS, it's a completely different chassis. 5xxx line however shares the same chassis with XPS - it's thin and light, but it's thermals are not even in the same league as 7xxx. So to summarize, if you want a beast of a workstation - get the 7xxx, if you want an ultrabook - it's 5xxx or it's cheaper, watered down version, the XPS.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

KiDD 5y ago

sbacic 5y ago

Yes - I was very close to pulling the trigger and buying one of the new M1 Macs. It seemed like Apple had finally delivered a device worth paying top dollar for. Then this fiasco with iCloud scanning happened. I don't mind the invasion of privacy so much as the idea that, even after paying so much money, the device is still not really "yours".

csomar 5y ago

I moved last year to Linux and it was a worthwhile decision (though it took some time to re-configure stuff and Linux does make some things difficult). I will only purchase an Mx macbook if they get proper Liux support. I think the machines could be great but I am done with macOS. There are multiple worthwhile machines that could run Linux. (gamers are underrated and AMD works great with Linux so far) As far as the smartphone goes, I'm stuck with the iPhone now as there are no alternatives. I was considering an iPad Pro but I am postponing that for now until this whole saga clears out.