Yes, that is as I recall too. Really, I was speaking to what came with the machines. Buy an Apple, and get schematics, ROM listing, etc, and there it all is i

Yes, that is as I recall too. Really, I was speaking to what came with the machines. Buy an Apple, and get schematics, ROM listing, etc, and there it all is in the open. And it was ready to use. An Atari was a different experience. Was not ready to program, and technical details took a while to be published. My first "PC" was an Apple 2. My first machine was an Atari. My first IBM type PC was much closer to the Apple than it was Atari.