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I'm fine with that if it happens in a free market under informed consent and for curing real diseases. But big pharma, big media, big tech, government and law e

I'm fine with that if it happens in a free market under informed consent and for curing real diseases. But big pharma, big media, big tech, government and law enforcement acting in complete lockstep to forcibly inject experimental vaccines into your veins for something that amounts to a bad variant of the flu is something else entirely.

foepys 5y ago
Did you ever have the flu? I bet you didn't and if you think you did, you probably had a cold instead. A runny nose, headaches, and a sore throat doesn't mean you got the flu. The flu will bind you to your bed for at least a week and you will need 3-6 weeks to recover. You will feel like somebody ran you over with a truck. It's not fun, it's highly dangerous.
- bamboozled 5y ago
  Why do people always says this? I've had the flu, I'm sure nearly everyone has had it once. It's not really incredibly uncommon.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    People do tend to conflate all sorts of "coughs" together as the "flu", including many illnesses that are a lot more mild than the flu.
    - Marsymars 5y ago
      > People do tend to conflate all sorts of "coughs" together as the "flu", including many illnesses that are a lot more mild than the flu. People do, but if you look at CDC estimates, tens of millions of people get influenza in any given year, so it's fairly like that any given adult individual has contracted influenza multiple times in their life. Disease Burden of Influenza: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
- glandium 5y ago
  FWIW, I've had the flu (confirmed with nasal swab). I was bound to bed for 2-3 days, with fever spikes above 41°C but it didn't take several weeks to recover. Barely a few days.
- Marsymars 5y ago
  > The flu will bind you to your bed for at least a week and you will need 3-6 weeks to recover. It can, but this isn't a given. Tens of millions of people get influenza yearly in the USA, and there's a wide range of estimates of asymptomatic cases, with 50% being a reasonable baseline to work from. See, e.g. Seasonal Incidence of Symptomatic Influenza in the United States: https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/66/10/1511/4682599 https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/66/10/1511/4682599 > Estimates of the percentage of influenza infections that are asymptomatic include a common approximation of 50% [33], 33% in 1 review [34] and 4%–28%, 0–100%, and 65%–85% in another review [35]. Both asymptomatic and symptomatic infections are captured in serological studies. The commonly cited “5%–20%” figure came from a serological study [5], and so represents both symptomatic and asymptomatic disease among a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons. If 50% of influenza were symptomatic, this would correspond to “2.5%–10%” with symptomatic disease, which is very similar to the range that we report.
sdmike1 5y ago
bro, fuck right off with that "oh it's just the flu" shit. it's a bad faith argument and you know it. at some lvl, I got COVID-19 in January and it was the worst month of my life, I still haven't recovered to my pre-COVID cardio endurance. I would request that you don't belittle people who have had worse experiences or died as a result of it. if you want to let /pol/ melt your brain you are more that welcome to do that just keep it in the containment board my dude.
curation 5y ago
Yes. For one example Finland has a nasal inhalation vaccine and cannot get funding to go ahead with it. (my partner is Finnish).
- sureglymop 5y ago
  There are about 30 different vaccines for COVID-19 around the world. Only the most "luxurious ones" such as Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and AstraZeneca are nucleic acid vaccines which use mRNA or DNA. It's a "superior" technology because it costs less and our own bodies do the work so to speak. Viruses or subunits of viruses don't have to be synthesized in a lab, so the challenges which come with that don't have to be dealt with. I'm pretty sure that this is the future of vaccines anyway.
nitwit005 5y ago
I wish the government worked so well, and could carry out a plan with such a diverse group of corporations without discord. Sadly a fantasy. I'd want to move to that world, even if the government was nefarious. At least they're super competent.
oceanplexian 5y ago
I don’t think government, tech, and law enforcement are acting in complete lockstep. But I can believe they are acting out of fear, and fueled by social media and technology. This worries me even more than a conspiracy, because people who are acting out of fear cannot consistently do good science or make rational decisions. When every government official, media outlet, and society at large is depending on scientists, doctors, and businesses to “fix” the pandemic so we can get back to business as usual, how strong are the incentive to cut corners or fudge some numbers if the ends justify the means? IMHO we are building lots of terrible incentive structures that are bound to blow up in our face.
sureglymop 5y ago
Okay.. experimental vaccines? There are about 30 different COVID-19 vaccines around the world, with all kinds of different technology. There are inactivated vaccines, live-attenuated vaccines, viral vector vaccines, you name it. And then there are also nucleic acid vaccines, which deliver instructions to our cells, either as DNA or as mRNA. These aren't new, and they have been researched way before COVID-19. It's just that these vaccines save costs and time, which makes them good option for this pandemic. Do note that in less rich and developed countries, more of the other types of vaccines are being used. It's actually a luxury that we can have this type of vaccine and personally I am quite sure that this is the future of most vaccines anyway.

foepys 5y ago

Did you ever have the flu? I bet you didn't and if you think you did, you probably had a cold instead. A runny nose, headaches, and a sore throat doesn't mean you got the flu. The flu will bind you to your bed for at least a week and you will need 3-6 weeks to recover. You will feel like somebody ran you over with a truck. It's not fun, it's highly dangerous.

bamboozled 5y ago
Why do people always says this? I've had the flu, I'm sure nearly everyone has had it once. It's not really incredibly uncommon.
- bawolff 5y ago
  People do tend to conflate all sorts of "coughs" together as the "flu", including many illnesses that are a lot more mild than the flu.
  - Marsymars 5y ago
    > People do tend to conflate all sorts of "coughs" together as the "flu", including many illnesses that are a lot more mild than the flu. People do, but if you look at CDC estimates, tens of millions of people get influenza in any given year, so it's fairly like that any given adult individual has contracted influenza multiple times in their life. Disease Burden of Influenza: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
glandium 5y ago
FWIW, I've had the flu (confirmed with nasal swab). I was bound to bed for 2-3 days, with fever spikes above 41°C but it didn't take several weeks to recover. Barely a few days.
Marsymars 5y ago
> The flu will bind you to your bed for at least a week and you will need 3-6 weeks to recover. It can, but this isn't a given. Tens of millions of people get influenza yearly in the USA, and there's a wide range of estimates of asymptomatic cases, with 50% being a reasonable baseline to work from. See, e.g. Seasonal Incidence of Symptomatic Influenza in the United States: https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/66/10/1511/4682599 https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/66/10/1511/4682599 > Estimates of the percentage of influenza infections that are asymptomatic include a common approximation of 50% [33], 33% in 1 review [34] and 4%–28%, 0–100%, and 65%–85% in another review [35]. Both asymptomatic and symptomatic infections are captured in serological studies. The commonly cited “5%–20%” figure came from a serological study [5], and so represents both symptomatic and asymptomatic disease among a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons. If 50% of influenza were symptomatic, this would correspond to “2.5%–10%” with symptomatic disease, which is very similar to the range that we report.

sdmike1 5y ago

bro, fuck right off with that "oh it's just the flu" shit. it's a bad faith argument and you know it. at some lvl, I got COVID-19 in January and it was the worst month of my life, I still haven't recovered to my pre-COVID cardio endurance. I would request that you don't belittle people who have had worse experiences or died as a result of it. if you want to let /pol/ melt your brain you are more that welcome to do that just keep it in the containment board my dude.

curation 5y ago

Yes. For one example Finland has a nasal inhalation vaccine and cannot get funding to go ahead with it. (my partner is Finnish).

sureglymop 5y ago
There are about 30 different vaccines for COVID-19 around the world. Only the most "luxurious ones" such as Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and AstraZeneca are nucleic acid vaccines which use mRNA or DNA. It's a "superior" technology because it costs less and our own bodies do the work so to speak. Viruses or subunits of viruses don't have to be synthesized in a lab, so the challenges which come with that don't have to be dealt with. I'm pretty sure that this is the future of vaccines anyway.

nitwit005 5y ago

I wish the government worked so well, and could carry out a plan with such a diverse group of corporations without discord. Sadly a fantasy. I'd want to move to that world, even if the government was nefarious. At least they're super competent.

oceanplexian 5y ago

I don’t think government, tech, and law enforcement are acting in complete lockstep. But I can believe they are acting out of fear, and fueled by social media and technology. This worries me even more than a conspiracy, because people who are acting out of fear cannot consistently do good science or make rational decisions. When every government official, media outlet, and society at large is depending on scientists, doctors, and businesses to “fix” the pandemic so we can get back to business as usual, how strong are the incentive to cut corners or fudge some numbers if the ends justify the means? IMHO we are building lots of terrible incentive structures that are bound to blow up in our face.

sureglymop 5y ago

Okay.. experimental vaccines? There are about 30 different COVID-19 vaccines around the world, with all kinds of different technology. There are inactivated vaccines, live-attenuated vaccines, viral vector vaccines, you name it. And then there are also nucleic acid vaccines, which deliver instructions to our cells, either as DNA or as mRNA. These aren't new, and they have been researched way before COVID-19. It's just that these vaccines save costs and time, which makes them good option for this pandemic. Do note that in less rich and developed countries, more of the other types of vaccines are being used. It's actually a luxury that we can have this type of vaccine and personally I am quite sure that this is the future of most vaccines anyway.