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I agree this is vastly better than what anyone else is doing, and you know I understand the technology. However, I don’t think any framing would have improved

by zepto 5y ago

I agree this is vastly better than what anyone else is doing, and you know I understand the technology. However, I don’t think any framing would have improved things. I think it was always going to feel wrong. I would prefer they don’t do this because it feels bad to be a suspect even in this abstract and in-practice harmless way. Having said that, having heard from people who have investigated how bad pedophile activity actually is, I can imagine being easily persuaded back in the other direction. I think thins is about the logic of evolutionary psychology, not the logic of cryptography. My guess is that between now and the October iPhone release we are going to see more media about the extent of the problem they are trying to solve. That is how Apple wins this.

unityByFreedom 5y ago
> Having said that, having heard from people who have investigated how bad pedophile activity actually is, I can imagine being easily persuaded back in the other direction. There are terrible things out there that we should seek to solve. They should not be solved by creating 1984 in the literal sense, and certainly not by the company that became famous for an advertisement based on that book [1]. Apple, take your own advice and Think Different [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMBhDv4sik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMBhDv4sik
- zepto 5y ago
  > creating 1984 in the literal sense I take it you haven’t read 1984. When Craig Federighi straps a cage full of starving rats to my face, I’ll concede this point.
  - unityByFreedom 5y ago
    China has tiger chairs. Should we move closer to their big brother systems?
    - zepto 5y ago
      No but this has nothing to do with that. In case you missed it, I think this is probably a bad move. I just don’t think these arguments about back doors and creeping totalitarianism are either accurate or likely to persuade everyday users when they weigh them up against the grotesque nature of child exploitation.
      - unityByFreedom 5y ago
        > I just don’t think these arguments about back doors and creeping totalitarianism are either accurate or likely to persuade everyday users when they weigh them up against the grotesque nature of child exploitation. Agree to disagree. This opens the door to something much worse in my opinion.
shuckles 5y ago
I don’t think I agree. If you think this boils down to instinct, do you think a story about coming together to save the next generation will work well on people cynical enough to see TLAs around every corner? At the very least, I feel like Apple should probably make a concession to the conspiracy minded so that they can bleach any offensive bits from their device and use them as offline-first DEFCON map viewing devices, or some such.
- zepto 5y ago
  > do you think a story about coming together to save the next generation will work well on people cynical enough to see TLAs around every corner? Absolutely not. I don’t think they need to persuade people who are convinced of their iniquity. What they need is an environment in which those people look like they are arguing over how many dictatorships need to collude to detect anti-government photos and how this constitutes literal 1984, while Apple is announcing a way to deter horrific crimes against American children that they have seen on TV.

by zepto 5y ago

unityByFreedom 5y ago

> Having said that, having heard from people who have investigated how bad pedophile activity actually is, I can imagine being easily persuaded back in the other direction. There are terrible things out there that we should seek to solve. They should not be solved by creating 1984 in the literal sense, and certainly not by the company that became famous for an advertisement based on that book [1]. Apple, take your own advice and Think Different [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMBhDv4sik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMBhDv4sik

zepto 5y ago
> creating 1984 in the literal sense I take it you haven’t read 1984. When Craig Federighi straps a cage full of starving rats to my face, I’ll concede this point.
- unityByFreedom 5y ago
  China has tiger chairs. Should we move closer to their big brother systems?
  - zepto 5y ago
    No but this has nothing to do with that. In case you missed it, I think this is probably a bad move. I just don’t think these arguments about back doors and creeping totalitarianism are either accurate or likely to persuade everyday users when they weigh them up against the grotesque nature of child exploitation.
    - unityByFreedom 5y ago
      > I just don’t think these arguments about back doors and creeping totalitarianism are either accurate or likely to persuade everyday users when they weigh them up against the grotesque nature of child exploitation. Agree to disagree. This opens the door to something much worse in my opinion.

shuckles 5y ago

I don’t think I agree. If you think this boils down to instinct, do you think a story about coming together to save the next generation will work well on people cynical enough to see TLAs around every corner? At the very least, I feel like Apple should probably make a concession to the conspiracy minded so that they can bleach any offensive bits from their device and use them as offline-first DEFCON map viewing devices, or some such.

zepto 5y ago
> do you think a story about coming together to save the next generation will work well on people cynical enough to see TLAs around every corner? Absolutely not. I don’t think they need to persuade people who are convinced of their iniquity. What they need is an environment in which those people look like they are arguing over how many dictatorships need to collude to detect anti-government photos and how this constitutes literal 1984, while Apple is announcing a way to deter horrific crimes against American children that they have seen on TV.