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What I don’t understand is how we can shut down the economy with a huge impact on small businesses, but not force the drug manufactures to share the capability

What I don’t understand is how we can shut down the economy with a huge impact on small businesses, but not force the drug manufactures to share the capability with the rest of the world. We complain about the unvaccinated in the US and the possibility of mutations, but then don’t do everything we can to help vaccinate the world and prevent mutations. And Russia and China are sharing the less effective vaccines they developed.[1] The whole things seems tragic, hypocritical, and an inevitable blow to America abroad. 1. https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/bidens-failure-on-covid-vaccine-monopolies https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/bidens-failure-on-covid-v...

loopz 5y ago
Capitalism doesn't work that way for health. It's only too predictable now.
rualca 5y ago
To be fair, the vaccines we have today were literally the first ones out of the gate, and they should be considered a stopgap solution that only serves to mitigate the problems caused by the global pandemic, but they patently don't work in eliminating it or even reach herd immunity. Basically the current batch of vaccines (the best ones, to boot) just train the immune system for it to have a fighting chance at not being overwhelmed by covid. But that's it. Some vaccination locations even make it their point to distribute pamphlets stating quite clear that the vaccine is not a silver bullet, and all basic health and higiene precautions in place should continue to be followed. It's far too early to talk about preventing mutations or any scenario where the current vaccines making covid is a thing of the past. If anything, the economical gains from the vaccines illustrate that much needs to be done to get a better, long-term solution.
BurningFrog 5y ago
Forcing vaccine manufacturers to give away their vaccine creates strong incentives against inventing vaccines. It works once, but the next pandemic may happen without any vaccines. The consensual, win-win way is to buy vaccines from the manufacturers, at high prices. This makes manufacturers wealthy by making people healthy and aligns incentives for the common good.
- hattmall 5y ago
  Or just have government funded researchers that are well compensated, it's not the actual scientist that developed the drugs getting rich.
  - creato 5y ago
    First, the science in developing a vaccine is not the only work involved. Clinical trials and scaling up manufacturing to name a few. Second, it actually is the scientists getting rich at least in some cases: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/business/biontech-covid-vaccine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/business/biontech-covid-v...
  - BurningFrog 5y ago
    Here is a profile of the billionaire inventors of the Pfizer vaccine as a counterexample: https://www.businessinsider.com/a-billionaire-couple-is-behind-the-historic-coronavirus-vaccine-2020-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/a-billionaire-couple-is-behi...
  - bamboozled 5y ago
    I was going to say the the same thing, just have both, well educated, funded scientists working for the Government (funded but still independent) and private companies competing with them too.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Huh? The Moderna employees have made out very well based on equity appreciation. And Pfizer scientists are well compensated including stock.
- poof131 5y ago
  That’s a straw man argument. They’ve made billions and will make billions more. Nothing is being given away for free. But currently, it is in their financial interests for this pandemic to go on indefinitely with continued mutations and a never-ending need for boosters. And our free market always seems to tilt in favor of monopolies. Shut down small businesses but don’t put any pressure on big pharma. Similar to 2008, let average people suffer but prop up the banks. I believe in free markets, but there is a reason people are turning against capitalism. No markets are truly free and we need consistent values applied to players big and small. Helping the world get vaccinated is the morally right thing to do, not optimizing pharma profits for the next decade under the guise of “incentives.”
irjustin 5y ago
Wait, i thought this is what we negotiated when the initial development and payment for the vaccine happened?!
dpedu 5y ago
There is some movement in this area. While this is not absolute it at lease a reversal on the US's previous stance of protecting patents on the vaccine. > Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine patents to boost supply - 06 May 2021 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57004302 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57004302 As I recall, this move needs further agreement between the US and its allies.

loopz 5y ago

Capitalism doesn't work that way for health. It's only too predictable now.

rualca 5y ago

To be fair, the vaccines we have today were literally the first ones out of the gate, and they should be considered a stopgap solution that only serves to mitigate the problems caused by the global pandemic, but they patently don't work in eliminating it or even reach herd immunity. Basically the current batch of vaccines (the best ones, to boot) just train the immune system for it to have a fighting chance at not being overwhelmed by covid. But that's it. Some vaccination locations even make it their point to distribute pamphlets stating quite clear that the vaccine is not a silver bullet, and all basic health and higiene precautions in place should continue to be followed. It's far too early to talk about preventing mutations or any scenario where the current vaccines making covid is a thing of the past. If anything, the economical gains from the vaccines illustrate that much needs to be done to get a better, long-term solution.

BurningFrog 5y ago

Forcing vaccine manufacturers to give away their vaccine creates strong incentives against inventing vaccines. It works once, but the next pandemic may happen without any vaccines. The consensual, win-win way is to buy vaccines from the manufacturers, at high prices. This makes manufacturers wealthy by making people healthy and aligns incentives for the common good.

hattmall 5y ago
Or just have government funded researchers that are well compensated, it's not the actual scientist that developed the drugs getting rich.
- creato 5y ago
  First, the science in developing a vaccine is not the only work involved. Clinical trials and scaling up manufacturing to name a few. Second, it actually is the scientists getting rich at least in some cases: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/business/biontech-covid-vaccine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/business/biontech-covid-v...
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  Here is a profile of the billionaire inventors of the Pfizer vaccine as a counterexample: https://www.businessinsider.com/a-billionaire-couple-is-behind-the-historic-coronavirus-vaccine-2020-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/a-billionaire-couple-is-behi...
- bamboozled 5y ago
  I was going to say the the same thing, just have both, well educated, funded scientists working for the Government (funded but still independent) and private companies competing with them too.
- refurb 5y ago
  Huh? The Moderna employees have made out very well based on equity appreciation. And Pfizer scientists are well compensated including stock.
poof131 5y ago
That’s a straw man argument. They’ve made billions and will make billions more. Nothing is being given away for free. But currently, it is in their financial interests for this pandemic to go on indefinitely with continued mutations and a never-ending need for boosters. And our free market always seems to tilt in favor of monopolies. Shut down small businesses but don’t put any pressure on big pharma. Similar to 2008, let average people suffer but prop up the banks. I believe in free markets, but there is a reason people are turning against capitalism. No markets are truly free and we need consistent values applied to players big and small. Helping the world get vaccinated is the morally right thing to do, not optimizing pharma profits for the next decade under the guise of “incentives.”

irjustin 5y ago

Wait, i thought this is what we negotiated when the initial development and payment for the vaccine happened?!

dpedu 5y ago

There is some movement in this area. While this is not absolute it at lease a reversal on the US's previous stance of protecting patents on the vaccine. > Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine patents to boost supply - 06 May 2021 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57004302 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57004302 As I recall, this move needs further agreement between the US and its allies.