4 ms·

Not parent, but considering the USA covered up and denied the virus spread for several months, the argument could be that China/CCP doing the same doesn’t indic

Not parent, but considering the USA covered up and denied the virus spread for several months, the argument could be that China/CCP doing the same doesn’t indicate the virus was engineered by China. After all, there is no indication the virus was engineered by the US government, yet the danger was repeatedly lied about by the highest levels of government in January and February 2020, e.g. “when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away” (Feb 10), “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero” (Feb 26) ”It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear” (Feb 27), etc. It’s claimed the local CCP apparatus lying and covering up the virus in December 2019 was for similar political reasons - there was an important event coming up in the city and they didn’t want it to be canceled.

dkersten 5y ago
The claim isn't that it was engineered, just that it escaped the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Besides, reports from China predated any from the USA, so for it to even be in the USA, CCP needed to have failed in containing it. I'm not denying that the USA's covering it up made it worse, it absolutely did. The US government aren't innocent in the global spread of the virus. But this entire discussion was about whether it originated from a lab break or natural spread through the wet market, so in that context, it doesn't really seem relevant, while CCP's behaviour is relevant in the sense that it paints a picture of them being untrustworthy and having acted shady when their culpability was questioned, so their denials of the WIV break, as well as their other actions (especially denying the WHO the ability to investigate for OVER A YEAR) puts doubt on their story. Doubt, though, isn't definitive proof. I never said that I think it was definitely a lab break, just that I think the chances are higher than many people like to admit and that the CCP have not proven trustworthy. We will probably never know for sure, either way.
- javagram 5y ago
  Agreed, it seems to me like we’ll never know for sure. Some aspects of china’s behavior are suspicious, and the lab leak theory is a plausible hypothetical, but I doubt we’ll ever see the evidence to know either way. We should definitely be reconsidering our own funding and oversight of any research that is similar to “gain of function”.
  - dkersten 5y ago
    Completely agree.

dkersten 5y ago

The claim isn't that it was engineered, just that it escaped the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Besides, reports from China predated any from the USA, so for it to even be in the USA, CCP needed to have failed in containing it. I'm not denying that the USA's covering it up made it worse, it absolutely did. The US government aren't innocent in the global spread of the virus. But this entire discussion was about whether it originated from a lab break or natural spread through the wet market, so in that context, it doesn't really seem relevant, while CCP's behaviour is relevant in the sense that it paints a picture of them being untrustworthy and having acted shady when their culpability was questioned, so their denials of the WIV break, as well as their other actions (especially denying the WHO the ability to investigate for OVER A YEAR) puts doubt on their story. Doubt, though, isn't definitive proof. I never said that I think it was definitely a lab break, just that I think the chances are higher than many people like to admit and that the CCP have not proven trustworthy. We will probably never know for sure, either way.

javagram 5y ago
Agreed, it seems to me like we’ll never know for sure. Some aspects of china’s behavior are suspicious, and the lab leak theory is a plausible hypothetical, but I doubt we’ll ever see the evidence to know either way. We should definitely be reconsidering our own funding and oversight of any research that is similar to “gain of function”.
- dkersten 5y ago
  Completely agree.