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Well, there first has to be a process to get your money clean enough to buy real estate. You can't buy a house with bitcoins or a suitcase full of cash without

Well, there first has to be a process to get your money clean enough to buy real estate. You can't buy a house with bitcoins or a suitcase full of cash without raising a lot of suspicions.

mistrial9 5y ago
about thirty percent of home purchases in the greater Bay Area were cash or equivalent in 2018, iir
- killingtime74 5y ago
  Cash as opposed to mortgage not actual dollar bills right
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    You would be surprised.
    - jldugger 5y ago
      I'm open to the opportunity, do you have the goods? Surprise us.
- takinola 5y ago
  I would imagine this is not physical cash but funds in a bank account. You would need to launder the money first to get it into the financial system before making the real estate purchase.
  - lstamour 5y ago
    That’s what Canadian banking is for, just have a lawyer set up a local account for a foreign entity, transfer money through a Canadian bank and just about everybody will take it next. Or so I hear… https://projects.thestar.com/panama-papers/canada-is-the-worlds-newest-tax-haven/ https://projects.thestar.com/panama-papers/canada-is-the-wor... Who knows if that’ll change https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/techlex/canadian-anti-money-laundering-requirements-changes-effective-june-1-2021 https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/techlex/canadian-a... or more broadly, https://www.iisd.org/itn/en/2021/06/24/the-end-of-tax-incentives-how-will-a-global-minimum-tax-affect-tax-incentives-regimes-in-developing-countries/ https://www.iisd.org/itn/en/2021/06/24/the-end-of-tax-incent...
- cdjk 5y ago
  Doesn’t “cash” usually just mean no financing contingency?
- refurb 5y ago
  I talked to someone who made such a purchase - it’s not actual cash, it’s just showing sufficient assets to pay cash, then financing when you close.
thebradbain 5y ago
You can buy a house in bitcoin, they don't even have to be that expensive. Source: I just bought a home in Los Angeles. I expected I'd have to compete against all-cash offers; I did not think I would have to be competing for a home against all-bitcoin offers. Many brokerages from my anecdotal experience will gladly accept Bitcoin. (I have no stake in crypto in any capacity, just thought it's worth sharing, since it surprised me) https://themillergroup-bcb.com/buy-with-bitcoin https://themillergroup-bcb.com/buy-with-bitcoin https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/power-players/crypto-billionaire-house-los-angeles-1203415474/ https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/power-players/crypto-bil...
- otterley 5y ago
  As far as I know, none of the major escrow agencies accept Bitcoin directly. The preferred method of deposit is still either a garden variety wire transfer or cashier’s check. That doesn’t mean that Bitcoin is impossible, but a boutique escrow agent such as one of these linked will have to be proposed by the buyer, and the seller will have to accept the risk of a relatively unknown agent being involved.
  - thebradbain 5y ago
    That makes complete sense. I will however say that the 3 homes I personally encountered where this happened (think $1-$2m range, not estates worth 10s of millions), the _selling_ agents were proudly proclaiming they accept Bitcoin, with one even saying their sellers preferred Bitcoin to all-cash.
    - otterley 5y ago
      Gee, that doesn't sound suspicious at all.
  - KirillPanov 5y ago
    > As far as I know, none of the major escrow agencies accept Bitcoin directly. In Washington State every attorney is automatically a licensed escrow agent. I believe this is the case in many/most states. [*] They certainly aren't the cheapest escrow agents, but there are enough attorneys that you simply need to work your way down the list until you find one that handles bitcoin. There are a lot of fish in this ocean, and they like getting paid. This advice applies to pretty much any "$BIG_ESCROW_COMPANY won't do XYZ for irrational reasons" problem. [*] in fact, technically it's the other way around: WA escrow agents are licensed as "limited practice attorneys" who are only allowed to practice one very narrowly-defined type of law: escrow arbitration. https://www.wsba.org/for-legal-professionals/join-the-legal-profession-in-wa/limited-practice-officers https://www.wsba.org/for-legal-professionals/join-the-legal-...
mmerlin 5y ago
In Australia we allow briefcases of cash for property purchases. Lawyers, Accountants, Real Estate Agents are all exempt from having to report anything suspicious involving property. Since year 2006 the govt keeps promising (but failing to actually implement) AML legislation therefore continue allowing these 3 gatekeeper professions to facilitate laundering of untold illegal $billions into property which helped us continue to break annual house price sales records for 20+ years and achieve eye watering house prices (currently over 10x the average annual gross wage to purchase an average house and yet prices still rising rapidly) [2021] https://mlexmarketinsight.com/news-hub/editors-picks/area-of-expertise/anti-bribery-and-corruption/australia-is-failing-to-regulate-the-professional-enablers-of-financial-crime https://mlexmarketinsight.com/news-hub/editors-picks/area-of... [2020] https://www.michaelwest.com.au/money-laundering-bill-finally-back-in-parliament-despite-fight-by-law-council-property-lobby/ https://www.michaelwest.com.au/money-laundering-bill-finally... [2016] https://youtu.be/otWm4yh7Rh4 https://youtu.be/otWm4yh7Rh4 [2015] http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/reports/mer4/Mutual-Evaluation-Report-Australia-2015.pdf http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/reports/mer4/M... I'm not sure of current statistics, but IIRC around year 2015 foreign property purchases in the state of Victoria were approaching 20% of all sales. Of course not all that was using laundered money, but it would have been nice to remove the market distortion of 22-year olds rocking up late to an auction in their Merc and bidding $100k or more over the current bid to easi!y win (waaay more than needed to actually win)

Well, there first has to be a process to get your money clean enough to buy real estate. You can't buy a house with bitcoins or a suitcase full of cash without raising a lot of suspicions.

mistrial9 5y ago

about thirty percent of home purchases in the greater Bay Area were cash or equivalent in 2018, iir

killingtime74 5y ago
Cash as opposed to mortgage not actual dollar bills right
- ncmncm 5y ago
  You would be surprised.
  - jldugger 5y ago
    I'm open to the opportunity, do you have the goods? Surprise us.
takinola 5y ago
I would imagine this is not physical cash but funds in a bank account. You would need to launder the money first to get it into the financial system before making the real estate purchase.
- lstamour 5y ago
  That’s what Canadian banking is for, just have a lawyer set up a local account for a foreign entity, transfer money through a Canadian bank and just about everybody will take it next. Or so I hear… https://projects.thestar.com/panama-papers/canada-is-the-worlds-newest-tax-haven/ https://projects.thestar.com/panama-papers/canada-is-the-wor... Who knows if that’ll change https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/techlex/canadian-anti-money-laundering-requirements-changes-effective-june-1-2021 https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/techlex/canadian-a... or more broadly, https://www.iisd.org/itn/en/2021/06/24/the-end-of-tax-incentives-how-will-a-global-minimum-tax-affect-tax-incentives-regimes-in-developing-countries/ https://www.iisd.org/itn/en/2021/06/24/the-end-of-tax-incent...
cdjk 5y ago
Doesn’t “cash” usually just mean no financing contingency?
refurb 5y ago
I talked to someone who made such a purchase - it’s not actual cash, it’s just showing sufficient assets to pay cash, then financing when you close.

thebradbain 5y ago

You can buy a house in bitcoin, they don't even have to be that expensive. Source: I just bought a home in Los Angeles. I expected I'd have to compete against all-cash offers; I did not think I would have to be competing for a home against all-bitcoin offers. Many brokerages from my anecdotal experience will gladly accept Bitcoin. (I have no stake in crypto in any capacity, just thought it's worth sharing, since it surprised me) https://themillergroup-bcb.com/buy-with-bitcoin https://themillergroup-bcb.com/buy-with-bitcoin https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/power-players/crypto-billionaire-house-los-angeles-1203415474/ https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/power-players/crypto-bil...

otterley 5y ago
As far as I know, none of the major escrow agencies accept Bitcoin directly. The preferred method of deposit is still either a garden variety wire transfer or cashier’s check. That doesn’t mean that Bitcoin is impossible, but a boutique escrow agent such as one of these linked will have to be proposed by the buyer, and the seller will have to accept the risk of a relatively unknown agent being involved.
- thebradbain 5y ago
  That makes complete sense. I will however say that the 3 homes I personally encountered where this happened (think $1-$2m range, not estates worth 10s of millions), the _selling_ agents were proudly proclaiming they accept Bitcoin, with one even saying their sellers preferred Bitcoin to all-cash.
  - otterley 5y ago
    Gee, that doesn't sound suspicious at all.
- KirillPanov 5y ago
  > As far as I know, none of the major escrow agencies accept Bitcoin directly. In Washington State every attorney is automatically a licensed escrow agent. I believe this is the case in many/most states. [*] They certainly aren't the cheapest escrow agents, but there are enough attorneys that you simply need to work your way down the list until you find one that handles bitcoin. There are a lot of fish in this ocean, and they like getting paid. This advice applies to pretty much any "$BIG_ESCROW_COMPANY won't do XYZ for irrational reasons" problem. [*] in fact, technically it's the other way around: WA escrow agents are licensed as "limited practice attorneys" who are only allowed to practice one very narrowly-defined type of law: escrow arbitration. https://www.wsba.org/for-legal-professionals/join-the-legal-profession-in-wa/limited-practice-officers https://www.wsba.org/for-legal-professionals/join-the-legal-...

mmerlin 5y ago

In Australia we allow briefcases of cash for property purchases. Lawyers, Accountants, Real Estate Agents are all exempt from having to report anything suspicious involving property. Since year 2006 the govt keeps promising (but failing to actually implement) AML legislation therefore continue allowing these 3 gatekeeper professions to facilitate laundering of untold illegal $billions into property which helped us continue to break annual house price sales records for 20+ years and achieve eye watering house prices (currently over 10x the average annual gross wage to purchase an average house and yet prices still rising rapidly) [2021] https://mlexmarketinsight.com/news-hub/editors-picks/area-of-expertise/anti-bribery-and-corruption/australia-is-failing-to-regulate-the-professional-enablers-of-financial-crime https://mlexmarketinsight.com/news-hub/editors-picks/area-of... [2020] https://www.michaelwest.com.au/money-laundering-bill-finally-back-in-parliament-despite-fight-by-law-council-property-lobby/ https://www.michaelwest.com.au/money-laundering-bill-finally... [2016] https://youtu.be/otWm4yh7Rh4 https://youtu.be/otWm4yh7Rh4 [2015] http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/reports/mer4/Mutual-Evaluation-Report-Australia-2015.pdf http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/reports/mer4/M... I'm not sure of current statistics, but IIRC around year 2015 foreign property purchases in the state of Victoria were approaching 20% of all sales. Of course not all that was using laundered money, but it would have been nice to remove the market distortion of 22-year olds rocking up late to an auction in their Merc and bidding $100k or more over the current bid to easi!y win (waaay more than needed to actually win)