4 ms·

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that they are doing huge damage to their reputation and trust for bigger reasons. Perhaps there are international

by norov 5y ago

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that they are doing huge damage to their reputation and trust for bigger reasons. Perhaps there are international or national security issues they are told to comply with that are not quite in the public view yet.

heavyset_go 5y ago
Occam's razor says they aren't playing 11th dimensional chess and that they just fucked up. It happens.
- frickinLasers 5y ago
  "Build this. Don't explain why" is not chess. It would be a perfectly logical order from the power structures Snowden exposed. eta: It makes way more sense to me than Apple actually thinking this was a good idea.
  - majormajor 5y ago
    "Don't tell anyone" seems like it would be step 3 of the instructions there.
    - frickinLasers 5y ago
      That would arouse suspicion as soon as someone (perhaps someone inside the company) figured out what was going on. Here, a key person introduces the idea, says it's "for the children," and people are baffled but the masses will forget about it, even come to accept the logic, soon enough.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > It would be a perfectly logical order from the power structures Snowden exposed. Snowden exposed that Apple was actively part[1] of the PRISM data collection and surveillance program targeting Americans. Apple also voluntarily gives up customer's data when requested by the US government for about 120,000 individuals a year[2]. They also hand over the data for over 31,000 users/accounts in response to FISA and NSL requests[2] in a six month period. > eta: It makes way more sense to me than Apple actually thinking this was a good idea. Based on the company's own messaging, they simply seem proud of the project and find it ambitious[3]. They're also excited about the project's expansion and evolution[3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/media/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/... [2] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html [3] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/ https://www.apple.com/child-safety/
    - frickinLasers 5y ago
      They do seem proud, but one of these things makes less sense than the others, given Apple's prior reasoning. We don't know what goes on in the secret courts these days but we have been assured watchdogs are in place and certain programs are no longer in use [1]. This is all speculation based on past behavior, but I assume new reasoning has been constructed that passes watchdog's interpretation of the law but requires new hoops for three-letter agencies to jump through to get the mountains of data they so yearn for. [1] https://reason.com/2015/11/29/the-nsa-will-stop-collecting-your-phone/ https://reason.com/2015/11/29/the-nsa-will-stop-collecting-y... Now it kind of sounds like I'm playing 5D chess, but since we don't know what takes place under secret Executive Orders...
    - katbyte 5y ago
      maybe they want to stop giving up customer data and doing this on the phone is the only way to do e2ee backups - can't hand over what you can't decrypt.
      - heavyset_go 5y ago
        Seems like a reach to me. The government doesn't just care about CSAM. They care about terrorism, human and drug trafficking, gangs, organized crime, fraud, etc. That might make sense if CSAM detection is just the start, and they plan on detecting all those other things, as well.
- kleene_op 5y ago
  They fucked up? No they didn't fuck up. They got what they wanted. It did sting a bit, but it was calculated. They won't suffer any massive losses over that, they have the moral high ground among non tech people, who mistakenly believe that they're doing something to protect children.
mda 5y ago
Why? "A huge fuck up while trying to be seen as champion of protecting children" perfectly explains the situation

by norov 5y ago

heavyset_go 5y ago

Occam's razor says they aren't playing 11th dimensional chess and that they just fucked up. It happens.

frickinLasers 5y ago
"Build this. Don't explain why" is not chess. It would be a perfectly logical order from the power structures Snowden exposed. eta: It makes way more sense to me than Apple actually thinking this was a good idea.
- majormajor 5y ago
  "Don't tell anyone" seems like it would be step 3 of the instructions there.
  - frickinLasers 5y ago
    That would arouse suspicion as soon as someone (perhaps someone inside the company) figured out what was going on. Here, a key person introduces the idea, says it's "for the children," and people are baffled but the masses will forget about it, even come to accept the logic, soon enough.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > It would be a perfectly logical order from the power structures Snowden exposed. Snowden exposed that Apple was actively part[1] of the PRISM data collection and surveillance program targeting Americans. Apple also voluntarily gives up customer's data when requested by the US government for about 120,000 individuals a year[2]. They also hand over the data for over 31,000 users/accounts in response to FISA and NSL requests[2] in a six month period. > eta: It makes way more sense to me than Apple actually thinking this was a good idea. Based on the company's own messaging, they simply seem proud of the project and find it ambitious[3]. They're also excited about the project's expansion and evolution[3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/media/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/... [2] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html [3] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/ https://www.apple.com/child-safety/
  - frickinLasers 5y ago
    They do seem proud, but one of these things makes less sense than the others, given Apple's prior reasoning. We don't know what goes on in the secret courts these days but we have been assured watchdogs are in place and certain programs are no longer in use [1]. This is all speculation based on past behavior, but I assume new reasoning has been constructed that passes watchdog's interpretation of the law but requires new hoops for three-letter agencies to jump through to get the mountains of data they so yearn for. [1] https://reason.com/2015/11/29/the-nsa-will-stop-collecting-your-phone/ https://reason.com/2015/11/29/the-nsa-will-stop-collecting-y... Now it kind of sounds like I'm playing 5D chess, but since we don't know what takes place under secret Executive Orders...
  - katbyte 5y ago
    maybe they want to stop giving up customer data and doing this on the phone is the only way to do e2ee backups - can't hand over what you can't decrypt.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      Seems like a reach to me. The government doesn't just care about CSAM. They care about terrorism, human and drug trafficking, gangs, organized crime, fraud, etc. That might make sense if CSAM detection is just the start, and they plan on detecting all those other things, as well.
kleene_op 5y ago
They fucked up? No they didn't fuck up. They got what they wanted. It did sting a bit, but it was calculated. They won't suffer any massive losses over that, they have the moral high ground among non tech people, who mistakenly believe that they're doing something to protect children.

mda 5y ago

Why? "A huge fuck up while trying to be seen as champion of protecting children" perfectly explains the situation