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> "debunk" COVID and the efficacy and safety of the vaccine What evidence is there of the efficacy of the vaccine that isn’t provided directly from Pfizer/Mode

> "debunk" COVID and the efficacy and safety of the vaccine What evidence is there of the efficacy of the vaccine that isn’t provided directly from Pfizer/Moderna? What evidence is there that it is safe, when there are 0 mid-to-long term studies on the effects of it? If it safe why are the pharma company’s immune from all liability? Why is anyone that question the narrative on how safe and effective the vaccines immediately labeled a “quack”, “alt right”, or “anti-vax” (there are plenty of pro-vax people that are skeptical of THIS vax, not all vax).

retsibsi 5y ago
> What evidence is there of the efficacy of the vaccine that isn’t provided directly from Pfizer/Moderna? There are multiple observational studies looking at real-world effectiveness. If necessary I'll find some links, but have you looked?
- hitpointdrew 5y ago
  I haven’t look for studies specifically, if you could link some that would be great. I just hear anecdotal evidence like “hospitalizations have gone down”. Which may be 100% true, but is hardly evidence that the vaccines are effective. The placebo effect is well known. It’s not shocking that hospitalization has gone down when the media has been beating the fear drum on how terribly dangerous the virus is 24/7, causing people to panic (pre vaccine days) and go to the hospital out of caution. Along comes a vaccine that is touted as effective and the media pounds that drum 24/7 and hospitalization goes down. The vaccine could have been saline solution and you would have seen a drop in hospitalization.
  - retsibsi 5y ago
    I've mostly been interested in effectiveness against the Delta strain, so the links in my history are recent preprints that have something to say about that: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v... , https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 , and a UK Government analysis that you'll probably find less convincing so I won't bother linking it.
  - wizzard 5y ago
    http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-su... There's a PDF in this article that links to dozens of independent studies. Or, just google "covid vaccine efficacy" and it pulls up a bunch of links for you. It really only takes a minimum of effort to answer these hard-hitting questions you've posed. As another example, I googled "why are pharmaceutical companies immune from liability over covid vaccine" and found https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=848329 https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=848329 .
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
pmoriarty 5y ago
It seems silly to worry about completely hypothetical and unknown long-term risks of vaccination when getting COVID-19 has very serious, well known short-term risks.
- deertick1 5y ago
  Doesn't seem silly at all to me : the known risks of covid are pretty tolerable. Death rate is extremely low for my demographic. So lets say I have a 30% chance of getting covid without a vax and a .1% chance of serious long term illness or death from covid. Now If I get the vaccine, I have a 1% chance of getting covid, and.01% chance of serioues injury or death + an unkown chance of unkown serious health complications from a vaccine. Id take bet 1 any day, personally, since the odds and stakes of the vaccine are unkown. Admittedly though, I think the chance of serious injury from vaccine is probably quite low or nonexistant but Im just trying to make the point that that perspective involves some reasonable value judgements. Note : all oercentages listed are majorly hand wavy. This comment is in no way intended to be statistically accurate Cheers.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    >> It seems silly to worry about completely hypothetical and unknown long-term risks of vaccination when getting COVID-19 has very serious, well known short-term risks. > Doesn't seem silly at all to me : the known risks of covid are pretty tolerable. Death rate is extremely low for my demographic [emphasis mine]. That perspective is why we can't have nice things.
    - deertick1 5y ago
      Not really dude. If I was around other people even remotely often it would be a different story but I work from home, dont really hang out with people, and wear an n95 when I have to go to the store. It doesn't make me a bad person to be unvaccinated. It would if I was cavalier about potentially getting others sick...
      - 5y ago

retsibsi 5y ago

> What evidence is there of the efficacy of the vaccine that isn’t provided directly from Pfizer/Moderna? There are multiple observational studies looking at real-world effectiveness. If necessary I'll find some links, but have you looked?

hitpointdrew 5y ago
I haven’t look for studies specifically, if you could link some that would be great. I just hear anecdotal evidence like “hospitalizations have gone down”. Which may be 100% true, but is hardly evidence that the vaccines are effective. The placebo effect is well known. It’s not shocking that hospitalization has gone down when the media has been beating the fear drum on how terribly dangerous the virus is 24/7, causing people to panic (pre vaccine days) and go to the hospital out of caution. Along comes a vaccine that is touted as effective and the media pounds that drum 24/7 and hospitalization goes down. The vaccine could have been saline solution and you would have seen a drop in hospitalization.
- retsibsi 5y ago
  I've mostly been interested in effectiveness against the Delta strain, so the links in my history are recent preprints that have something to say about that: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v... , https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 , and a UK Government analysis that you'll probably find less convincing so I won't bother linking it.
- wizzard 5y ago
  http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary http://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-su... There's a PDF in this article that links to dozens of independent studies. Or, just google "covid vaccine efficacy" and it pulls up a bunch of links for you. It really only takes a minimum of effort to answer these hard-hitting questions you've posed. As another example, I googled "why are pharmaceutical companies immune from liability over covid vaccine" and found https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=848329 https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=848329 .
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

pmoriarty 5y ago

It seems silly to worry about completely hypothetical and unknown long-term risks of vaccination when getting COVID-19 has very serious, well known short-term risks.

deertick1 5y ago
Doesn't seem silly at all to me : the known risks of covid are pretty tolerable. Death rate is extremely low for my demographic. So lets say I have a 30% chance of getting covid without a vax and a .1% chance of serious long term illness or death from covid. Now If I get the vaccine, I have a 1% chance of getting covid, and.01% chance of serioues injury or death + an unkown chance of unkown serious health complications from a vaccine. Id take bet 1 any day, personally, since the odds and stakes of the vaccine are unkown. Admittedly though, I think the chance of serious injury from vaccine is probably quite low or nonexistant but Im just trying to make the point that that perspective involves some reasonable value judgements. Note : all oercentages listed are majorly hand wavy. This comment is in no way intended to be statistically accurate Cheers.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  >> It seems silly to worry about completely hypothetical and unknown long-term risks of vaccination when getting COVID-19 has very serious, well known short-term risks. > Doesn't seem silly at all to me : the known risks of covid are pretty tolerable. Death rate is extremely low for my demographic [emphasis mine]. That perspective is why we can't have nice things.
  - deertick1 5y ago
    Not really dude. If I was around other people even remotely often it would be a different story but I work from home, dont really hang out with people, and wear an n95 when I have to go to the store. It doesn't make me a bad person to be unvaccinated. It would if I was cavalier about potentially getting others sick...
    - 5y ago