4 ms·

Makes me wonder how hard it would be to either just snip the control circuit from the utility provided thermostat to your AC unit and run your own in its place

by Arrath 5y ago

Makes me wonder how hard it would be to either just snip the control circuit from the utility provided thermostat to your AC unit and run your own in its place while retaining the discount, or setup an rPi or such as a MITM and intercept the control commands. Alternatively: just don't overthink things and install a mini-split/window unit/small portable that doesn't get connected to the house thermostat in the first place.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
These programs are optional. Google's Nest (among others) integrates with utility signaling to perform this shedding, and it's typically allowable for you to enable cooling and override the load shedding activated during peak demand (in the programs I'm familiar with).
- Arrath 5y ago
  I get that, I was just pondering the fraudulent possibilities of netting the discount while subverting any control the utility would take over your HVAC equipment.
  - throwanem 5y ago
    You have to have a smart meter to qualify for the program, so it's not like they can't tell if you cheat from consumption data.
- throwanem 5y ago
  The smart thermostats BGE offers allow only two overrides per day, iirc 30 or 60 min each. Not sure on that part, but the specific period isn't so much at issue as that somebody else has the privilege of deciding when I am allowed not to swelter. (I saw some mention of a "smart switch" also installed under this program, which I assume is there to prevent "overriding" the meter by just yanking it off the wall and shorting the contacts.)
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    > Not sure on that part, but the specific period isn't so much at issue as that somebody else has the privilege of deciding when I am allowed not to swelter. You signed up for a discount for them to have permission to adjust your AC condensing demand run time when necessary, correct? I have never heard of a mandatory residential load shedding program in the US, but that doesn't mean they might be out there. https://bgesavings.com/programs/ac/ https://bgesavings.com/programs/ac/ > BGE‘s PeakRewards Air Conditioning program helps prevent the need for additional power plants, keep down the overall cost of electricity and ease the burden on Maryland’s electricity delivery system as the state’s population continues to grow. Plus, participants receive up to $100 in BGE bill credits each summer (June – September). > The PeakRewards program is completely voluntary and is open to all BGE residential customers with central air conditioning or an electric heat pump in good working order, regardless of their choice of electricity supplier.
    - maxerickson 5y ago
      There's occasionally rolling blackouts. Those are mandatory load shedding.
    - throwanem 5y ago
      > You signed up for a discount for them to have permission to adjust your AC condensing demand run time when necessary, correct? No. You're right that the program is (currently) voluntary; I haven't volunteered, not least because I run the AC at 76°, I have and know how to use ceiling fans, and most months the bill barely breaks $150 if that - my house is 140 years old, and while that's not enough especially in Baltimore to say that its survival proves it is well designed, it is well designed. This is targeted at two groups of people: fools who paid far too much for far too little and ended up house-poor in a place built last year that doesn't know how to stay cool, and folks for whom $100 a month makes a huge difference. One of those groups has my sympathy, especially because I expect they'll be first and hardest hit when these programs cease being voluntary because the state isn't investing enough in generation capacity and the city isn't investing enough in grid maintenance.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Just put a heated blanket on it if you need to override
mindslight 5y ago
If this became enough of a problem, it would be easy enough for them to start auditing your hourly power usage. I wouldn't be surprised if they were already doing so to see the impact of such programs, and also because bypassing a thermostat or installing a window AC unit is within the reach of most people.
- smegger001 5y ago
  sounds like it will incentivizes battery installation
throwanem 5y ago
Oh, it's trivial to take any thermostat off the wall and bridge the same contacts its relay would. That's not what concerns me, so much as that I think I see the thin end of a wedge.

by Arrath 5y ago

toomuchtodo 5y ago

These programs are optional. Google's Nest (among others) integrates with utility signaling to perform this shedding, and it's typically allowable for you to enable cooling and override the load shedding activated during peak demand (in the programs I'm familiar with).

Arrath 5y ago
I get that, I was just pondering the fraudulent possibilities of netting the discount while subverting any control the utility would take over your HVAC equipment.
- throwanem 5y ago
  You have to have a smart meter to qualify for the program, so it's not like they can't tell if you cheat from consumption data.
throwanem 5y ago
The smart thermostats BGE offers allow only two overrides per day, iirc 30 or 60 min each. Not sure on that part, but the specific period isn't so much at issue as that somebody else has the privilege of deciding when I am allowed not to swelter. (I saw some mention of a "smart switch" also installed under this program, which I assume is there to prevent "overriding" the meter by just yanking it off the wall and shorting the contacts.)
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  > Not sure on that part, but the specific period isn't so much at issue as that somebody else has the privilege of deciding when I am allowed not to swelter. You signed up for a discount for them to have permission to adjust your AC condensing demand run time when necessary, correct? I have never heard of a mandatory residential load shedding program in the US, but that doesn't mean they might be out there. https://bgesavings.com/programs/ac/ https://bgesavings.com/programs/ac/ > BGE‘s PeakRewards Air Conditioning program helps prevent the need for additional power plants, keep down the overall cost of electricity and ease the burden on Maryland’s electricity delivery system as the state’s population continues to grow. Plus, participants receive up to $100 in BGE bill credits each summer (June – September). > The PeakRewards program is completely voluntary and is open to all BGE residential customers with central air conditioning or an electric heat pump in good working order, regardless of their choice of electricity supplier.
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    There's occasionally rolling blackouts. Those are mandatory load shedding.
  - throwanem 5y ago
    > You signed up for a discount for them to have permission to adjust your AC condensing demand run time when necessary, correct? No. You're right that the program is (currently) voluntary; I haven't volunteered, not least because I run the AC at 76°, I have and know how to use ceiling fans, and most months the bill barely breaks $150 if that - my house is 140 years old, and while that's not enough especially in Baltimore to say that its survival proves it is well designed, it is well designed. This is targeted at two groups of people: fools who paid far too much for far too little and ended up house-poor in a place built last year that doesn't know how to stay cool, and folks for whom $100 a month makes a huge difference. One of those groups has my sympathy, especially because I expect they'll be first and hardest hit when these programs cease being voluntary because the state isn't investing enough in generation capacity and the city isn't investing enough in grid maintenance.
rdtwo 5y ago
Just put a heated blanket on it if you need to override

mindslight 5y ago

If this became enough of a problem, it would be easy enough for them to start auditing your hourly power usage. I wouldn't be surprised if they were already doing so to see the impact of such programs, and also because bypassing a thermostat or installing a window AC unit is within the reach of most people.

smegger001 5y ago
sounds like it will incentivizes battery installation

throwanem 5y ago

Oh, it's trivial to take any thermostat off the wall and bridge the same contacts its relay would. That's not what concerns me, so much as that I think I see the thin end of a wedge.