4 ms·

Another in a long line of US military failures since WW2. I suspect when history looks back at the fall of the US/rise of the East, a common theme will be how m

Another in a long line of US military failures since WW2. I suspect when history looks back at the fall of the US/rise of the East, a common theme will be how much of a lead the US blew as a result of multiple, unnecessary and excruciatingly resource-intensive wars of attrition

spfzero 5y ago
The peak of the US "lead" would seem to be the fall of the Soviet Union. Vietnam etc. was long over by then. Not saying Iraq and Afghanistan weren't unnecessary and expensive. The U.S. and the world would have been better off without them, probably. Saddam and the Taliban, Isis, Al Qaida don't look so dangerous in retrospect. But Islamic "extremism" was the big perceived threat back then, and you could argue that it is less of a threat today, so someones' version of a problem solved.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
The only reason WW2 was a success because it was a real war aiming at total defeat and destruction of the enemy including civilian population. "Liberation" wars where the population is supposed to be saved from oppressive governments always fail. Failed in Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan. Military can't distinguish between "good" and "bad" and a big, confusing mess gets created. WW2 would also have failed if the military had tried to avoid civilian deaths. You simply can't win a war that way,
- dogman144 5y ago
  Military is pretty goodat that distinction. Government is not. Example: The government never bothered to renew the authorization for the global war on terror given in 2001 until like last year. Mil works best with a clear mission - nation building is not a clear mission.
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    Don't forget that military and government are the same. The US military is as guilty of stupid wars as everybody else in leadership.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  I think the key difference is that the enemy in WW2 was centrally led conventional army while the Taliban wage Guerilla warfare, with entrenched structures and decades of experience.
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    The Taliban could easily be defeated if the occupying military didn't care about civilians and accepted destruction of the country. What doesn't work is fighting while also trying to build up a country, After WW2 Germany and Japan only worked because there was basically no resistance and the occupying powers could focus completely on rebuilding civilian society. What makes it even worse in countries like Vietnam, Afghanistan or Iraq is that the occupiers have no understanding of these societies and are trying to impose Western values on them.
    - nxmnxm99 5y ago
      Your latter points are exactly the problem with the US and western foreign policy in general. This belief that everyone just desperately wants the freedom to do a liberal arts degree and wear short shorts. The average Afghan has never looked at US society and culture aspirationally. They admire our wealth - that's it.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
      > After WW2 Germany and Japan only worked because there was basically no resistance Exactly - and that is because the enemy in WW2 was a centrally led conventional army. Defeat it once, and it just stops, it's over.

spfzero 5y ago

The peak of the US "lead" would seem to be the fall of the Soviet Union. Vietnam etc. was long over by then. Not saying Iraq and Afghanistan weren't unnecessary and expensive. The U.S. and the world would have been better off without them, probably. Saddam and the Taliban, Isis, Al Qaida don't look so dangerous in retrospect. But Islamic "extremism" was the big perceived threat back then, and you could argue that it is less of a threat today, so someones' version of a problem solved.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

The only reason WW2 was a success because it was a real war aiming at total defeat and destruction of the enemy including civilian population. "Liberation" wars where the population is supposed to be saved from oppressive governments always fail. Failed in Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan. Military can't distinguish between "good" and "bad" and a big, confusing mess gets created. WW2 would also have failed if the military had tried to avoid civilian deaths. You simply can't win a war that way,

dogman144 5y ago
Military is pretty goodat that distinction. Government is not. Example: The government never bothered to renew the authorization for the global war on terror given in 2001 until like last year. Mil works best with a clear mission - nation building is not a clear mission.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  Don't forget that military and government are the same. The US military is as guilty of stupid wars as everybody else in leadership.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
I think the key difference is that the enemy in WW2 was centrally led conventional army while the Taliban wage Guerilla warfare, with entrenched structures and decades of experience.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  The Taliban could easily be defeated if the occupying military didn't care about civilians and accepted destruction of the country. What doesn't work is fighting while also trying to build up a country, After WW2 Germany and Japan only worked because there was basically no resistance and the occupying powers could focus completely on rebuilding civilian society. What makes it even worse in countries like Vietnam, Afghanistan or Iraq is that the occupiers have no understanding of these societies and are trying to impose Western values on them.
  - nxmnxm99 5y ago
    Your latter points are exactly the problem with the US and western foreign policy in general. This belief that everyone just desperately wants the freedom to do a liberal arts degree and wear short shorts. The average Afghan has never looked at US society and culture aspirationally. They admire our wealth - that's it.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
    > After WW2 Germany and Japan only worked because there was basically no resistance Exactly - and that is because the enemy in WW2 was a centrally led conventional army. Defeat it once, and it just stops, it's over.