4 ms·

> Imagine Doctors trying to debunk the official fact-checker statements and being labeled as misinformation simply due to the fact that they disagree with the f

> Imagine Doctors trying to debunk the official fact-checker statements and being labeled as misinformation simply due to the fact that they disagree with the fact-checker! Though it's worth noting that MDs (and all other kinds of doctors) can be incompetent and/or batshit insane. For instance, I had the pleasure of viewing a video where a psychiatrist leaned on his MD credential to "debunk" COVID and the efficacy and safety of the vaccine. Even ignoring his personal competency, I wouldn't be surprised if his specialty has the least qualification to speak on the topic of infectious disease of all medical specialties. Here's the video for anyone interested: https://off-guardian.org/2020/12/09/watch-ask-the-experts-covid-19-vaccine/ https://off-guardian.org/2020/12/09/watch-ask-the-experts-co..., the guy I'm talking about is the first speaker (didn't bother with any of the others). Edit: watching a bit more of that video, many of the other speakers emphasize being "medical doctors" and several use the odd phrase "medical pandemic." I wonder if they're reading from a script?

jeffbee 5y ago
The whole COVID "skeptic" circus is full of quacks with irrelevant credentials, like urologists and orthodontists. As a prominent example, I give you Rand Paul. If you take advice on infectious diseases from an ophthalmologist, you're going to have a bad time.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  My ophthalmologist requires masks and social distancing in his office. He also recommended against wearing contacts for the duration of the pandemic (he says glasses offer more protection.) Why am I going to have a bad time for following his rules and advice?
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    >> If you take advice on infectious diseases from an ophthalmologist, you're going to have a bad time. > Why am I going to have a bad time for following his rules and advice? You're not, you're just being over-literal. Most ophthalmologists are sensible people who will give guidance outside their fields that comports with the guidance from medical professionals in that field. That sounds like your ophthalmologist. However, if you find an ophthalmologist who blatantly contradicts the guidance from areas far outside his field, then that's when "you're going to have a bad time." The reason for that is you've likely found someone who doesn't respect the limits of his own knowledge and experience.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    If your podiatrist says the earth is round, and you agree, you are not taking advice in cosmology from a podiatrist. But if your podiatrist tells you the earth is flat, and you believe that, then you are. See the difference?
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      No, I don't see the difference. That just sounds like an example of confirmation bias.
- parineum 5y ago
  On the other hand, anyone who's taken a college anatomy class is more "expert" than a large majority of others, including some loud voices. Unfortunately, expert doesn't always mean well informed. That's why we look for the collective expert opinion rather than an expert's opinion.
hitpointdrew 5y ago
> "debunk" COVID and the efficacy and safety of the vaccine What evidence is there of the efficacy of the vaccine that isn’t provided directly from Pfizer/Moderna? What evidence is there that it is safe, when there are 0 mid-to-long term studies on the effects of it? If it safe why are the pharma company’s immune from all liability? Why is anyone that question the narrative on how safe and effective the vaccines immediately labeled a “quack”, “alt right”, or “anti-vax” (there are plenty of pro-vax people that are skeptical of THIS vax, not all vax).
- retsibsi 5y ago
  > What evidence is there of the efficacy of the vaccine that isn’t provided directly from Pfizer/Moderna? There are multiple observational studies looking at real-world effectiveness. If necessary I'll find some links, but have you looked?
  - hitpointdrew 5y ago
    I haven’t look for studies specifically, if you could link some that would be great. I just hear anecdotal evidence like “hospitalizations have gone down”. Which may be 100% true, but is hardly evidence that the vaccines are effective. The placebo effect is well known. It’s not shocking that hospitalization has gone down when the media has been beating the fear drum on how terribly dangerous the virus is 24/7, causing people to panic (pre vaccine days) and go to the hospital out of caution. Along comes a vaccine that is touted as effective and the media pounds that drum 24/7 and hospitalization goes down. The vaccine could have been saline solution and you would have seen a drop in hospitalization.
    - retsibsi 5y ago
      I've mostly been interested in effectiveness against the Delta strain, so the links in my history are recent preprints that have something to say about that: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v... , https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 , and a UK Government analysis that you'll probably find less convincing so I won't bother linking it.
vfclists 5y ago
I don't know about psychiatry in America, but psychiatry is a specialty within general medicine, so he is qualified to speak on the efficacy and safety of the vaccine. The authority based medicine surrounding Covid is completely out of hand

jeffbee 5y ago

The whole COVID "skeptic" circus is full of quacks with irrelevant credentials, like urologists and orthodontists. As a prominent example, I give you Rand Paul. If you take advice on infectious diseases from an ophthalmologist, you're going to have a bad time.

jdavis703 5y ago
My ophthalmologist requires masks and social distancing in his office. He also recommended against wearing contacts for the duration of the pandemic (he says glasses offer more protection.) Why am I going to have a bad time for following his rules and advice?
- tablespoon 5y ago
  >> If you take advice on infectious diseases from an ophthalmologist, you're going to have a bad time. > Why am I going to have a bad time for following his rules and advice? You're not, you're just being over-literal. Most ophthalmologists are sensible people who will give guidance outside their fields that comports with the guidance from medical professionals in that field. That sounds like your ophthalmologist. However, if you find an ophthalmologist who blatantly contradicts the guidance from areas far outside his field, then that's when "you're going to have a bad time." The reason for that is you've likely found someone who doesn't respect the limits of his own knowledge and experience.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  If your podiatrist says the earth is round, and you agree, you are not taking advice in cosmology from a podiatrist. But if your podiatrist tells you the earth is flat, and you believe that, then you are. See the difference?
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    No, I don't see the difference. That just sounds like an example of confirmation bias.
parineum 5y ago
On the other hand, anyone who's taken a college anatomy class is more "expert" than a large majority of others, including some loud voices. Unfortunately, expert doesn't always mean well informed. That's why we look for the collective expert opinion rather than an expert's opinion.

hitpointdrew 5y ago

> "debunk" COVID and the efficacy and safety of the vaccine What evidence is there of the efficacy of the vaccine that isn’t provided directly from Pfizer/Moderna? What evidence is there that it is safe, when there are 0 mid-to-long term studies on the effects of it? If it safe why are the pharma company’s immune from all liability? Why is anyone that question the narrative on how safe and effective the vaccines immediately labeled a “quack”, “alt right”, or “anti-vax” (there are plenty of pro-vax people that are skeptical of THIS vax, not all vax).

retsibsi 5y ago
> What evidence is there of the efficacy of the vaccine that isn’t provided directly from Pfizer/Moderna? There are multiple observational studies looking at real-world effectiveness. If necessary I'll find some links, but have you looked?
- hitpointdrew 5y ago
  I haven’t look for studies specifically, if you could link some that would be great. I just hear anecdotal evidence like “hospitalizations have gone down”. Which may be 100% true, but is hardly evidence that the vaccines are effective. The placebo effect is well known. It’s not shocking that hospitalization has gone down when the media has been beating the fear drum on how terribly dangerous the virus is 24/7, causing people to panic (pre vaccine days) and go to the hospital out of caution. Along comes a vaccine that is touted as effective and the media pounds that drum 24/7 and hospitalization goes down. The vaccine could have been saline solution and you would have seen a drop in hospitalization.
  - retsibsi 5y ago
    I've mostly been interested in effectiveness against the Delta strain, so the links in my history are recent preprints that have something to say about that: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v... , https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891 , and a UK Government analysis that you'll probably find less convincing so I won't bother linking it.

vfclists 5y ago

I don't know about psychiatry in America, but psychiatry is a specialty within general medicine, so he is qualified to speak on the efficacy and safety of the vaccine. The authority based medicine surrounding Covid is completely out of hand