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I think Snopes has pretty clear political biases that detract from their ability to fact check. An example is their article on "Sweden is the rape Capitol of Eu

I think Snopes has pretty clear political biases that detract from their ability to fact check. An example is their article on "Sweden is the rape Capitol of Europe"[1] which they rate false. Their article talks about Trump and immigration and Farrage and doesn't really get to what they are supposed to be debunking, which is the rape Capitol thing. Sweden does have the highest rate of rape per capita in Europe. This is possibly due to how Sweden and other European countries collate rape statistics but also possibly due to Sweden having more rapists or some combination of the two things. I think an article that tried to investigate how to compare rape rates between European countries and where we should fairly consider to Sweden to be in that ranking would be both challenging to write and interesting to read. Instead, Snopes just says Trump is a dumb racist and therefore the claim is false.

millzlane 5y ago
Rapes actually dropped. They debunked it in the article. Sweden doesn't have the highest rape rate. If you look at the graph that they mention from the article. https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2017/03/sd-graph.jpg https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2017/03/sd-graph.jpg "– The question posed on sexual crimes in NTU includes a wide range of crimes. It can range from minor events [like] flashing and groping, to very serious incidents of rape. Those who say they suffered must therefore answer questions about the severity of the crime. The responses show that in 29 percent of cases [have been] a more serious form of sexual crimes, says Emelie Hambrook, investigator at the National Council." "While Brå noted that the broad category of “sexual crimes” had increased since 2012, the same was not true for rape. Another Brå graph shows that reported cases of rape (represented by the purple line below) did not spike suddenly after the influx of refugees in 2015 – instead, they dropped from 6,697 in 2014 to 5,918 in 2015 (about the same amount as in 2009). " https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-...
- exporectomy 5y ago
  Nothing you wrote contradicts the claim of it being the rape capital. The rate can drop and still be the highest. Are you aware that you're not logically countering the parent comment but just saying something tangential to it?
  - incrudible 5y ago
    That is basically how a fact check works if the claim is true but you want to debunk it anyway. Talk about something related that is directionally opposite to the claim, then give the ˋmisleadingˋ verdict.
    - anchpop 5y ago
      True but the actual snopes article does directly make an argument that the rate of rape in sweden is not materially higher than in other european countries
emj 5y ago
Then read some more on the subject and please don't continue to propagate myths like this. https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/news-from-bra/archive/news/2020-09-30-difficult-to-compare-rape-statistics-in-european-countries.html https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/news-from-bra/archive...
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  Here is a quote from the Foreword of that report - "According to the statistics presented by the EU, Sweden has long had the highest number of reported rapes per capita in Europe" Now, it's perfectly reasonable to say that rape is defined and reported differently in different countries and that's why rape appears more frequent in Sweden than in many other countries. In fact, I referenced that in my previous comment. It's not reasonable to say "Theoretically, if Sweden followed Germany's laws and reporting then Sweden would have an average number of rapes and therefore the true claim that Sweden has the highest rape rate in Europe is false." It is actually true, and is repeatedly acknowledged in this report, that Sweden has, and has had, the highest rape rate in Europe. Maybe there is an argument for calling the "Rape Capitol" claim misleading or complicated, but it's clearly not just outright false.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    I think it's pretty cut and dry, the question is pertaining to actual events not the rate of report for each event. Think of it this way: if Sweden counted population differently than other countries and came up with a population of 2 billion it'd still false that Sweden is the most populous country in the world, they would simply be the country which _reports_ the highest population in the world. While interesting in itself it wouldn't make the statement "Sweden is the most populous country in the world" any less false. The report rates are probably worth mentioning in the explanation of why it's false but it doesn't change the falseyness of the claim. Unless the question is specifically geared towards the rate of report of course but few go looking for that, most want to know the actual rates.
    - ALittleLight 5y ago
MikeUt 5y ago
More notable than how they use tangential evidence to debunk a claim (e.g. citing a drop in rape as evidence it's not the rape capital, and comparing the rate of rape in absolute terms, not per-capita), is which part of a claim they choose to debunk. According to the Swedish state TV, 58% of all convicted rapists were foreign-born [1], despite being only 19% of the population [2]. They could cite that as supporting "accepting refugees from war-torn regions like Syria would make the United States less safe", and rate the whole statement as a mixture. Instead they meticulously dance around the core of the statement [3], using all sorts of indirect statistics. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden [3] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-...
- dang 5y ago
  You're obviously using HN primarily for ideological battle, and that's against the site guidelines (regardless of whatever it is that you're battling for), so I've banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - MikeUt 5y ago
    No hard feelings. Keep up the good work.

millzlane 5y ago

Rapes actually dropped. They debunked it in the article. Sweden doesn't have the highest rape rate. If you look at the graph that they mention from the article. https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2017/03/sd-graph.jpg https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2017/03/sd-graph.jpg "– The question posed on sexual crimes in NTU includes a wide range of crimes. It can range from minor events [like] flashing and groping, to very serious incidents of rape. Those who say they suffered must therefore answer questions about the severity of the crime. The responses show that in 29 percent of cases [have been] a more serious form of sexual crimes, says Emelie Hambrook, investigator at the National Council." "While Brå noted that the broad category of “sexual crimes” had increased since 2012, the same was not true for rape. Another Brå graph shows that reported cases of rape (represented by the purple line below) did not spike suddenly after the influx of refugees in 2015 – instead, they dropped from 6,697 in 2014 to 5,918 in 2015 (about the same amount as in 2009). " https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-...

exporectomy 5y ago
Nothing you wrote contradicts the claim of it being the rape capital. The rate can drop and still be the highest. Are you aware that you're not logically countering the parent comment but just saying something tangential to it?
- incrudible 5y ago
  That is basically how a fact check works if the claim is true but you want to debunk it anyway. Talk about something related that is directionally opposite to the claim, then give the ˋmisleadingˋ verdict.
  - anchpop 5y ago
    True but the actual snopes article does directly make an argument that the rate of rape in sweden is not materially higher than in other european countries

emj 5y ago

Then read some more on the subject and please don't continue to propagate myths like this. https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/news-from-bra/archive/news/2020-09-30-difficult-to-compare-rape-statistics-in-european-countries.html https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/news-from-bra/archive...

ALittleLight 5y ago
Here is a quote from the Foreword of that report - "According to the statistics presented by the EU, Sweden has long had the highest number of reported rapes per capita in Europe" Now, it's perfectly reasonable to say that rape is defined and reported differently in different countries and that's why rape appears more frequent in Sweden than in many other countries. In fact, I referenced that in my previous comment. It's not reasonable to say "Theoretically, if Sweden followed Germany's laws and reporting then Sweden would have an average number of rapes and therefore the true claim that Sweden has the highest rape rate in Europe is false." It is actually true, and is repeatedly acknowledged in this report, that Sweden has, and has had, the highest rape rate in Europe. Maybe there is an argument for calling the "Rape Capitol" claim misleading or complicated, but it's clearly not just outright false.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  I think it's pretty cut and dry, the question is pertaining to actual events not the rate of report for each event. Think of it this way: if Sweden counted population differently than other countries and came up with a population of 2 billion it'd still false that Sweden is the most populous country in the world, they would simply be the country which _reports_ the highest population in the world. While interesting in itself it wouldn't make the statement "Sweden is the most populous country in the world" any less false. The report rates are probably worth mentioning in the explanation of why it's false but it doesn't change the falseyness of the claim. Unless the question is specifically geared towards the rate of report of course but few go looking for that, most want to know the actual rates.
  - ALittleLight 5y ago

MikeUt 5y ago

More notable than how they use tangential evidence to debunk a claim (e.g. citing a drop in rape as evidence it's not the rape capital, and comparing the rate of rape in absolute terms, not per-capita), is which part of a claim they choose to debunk. According to the Swedish state TV, 58% of all convicted rapists were foreign-born [1], despite being only 19% of the population [2]. They could cite that as supporting "accepting refugees from war-torn regions like Syria would make the United States less safe", and rate the whole statement as a mixture. Instead they meticulously dance around the core of the statement [3], using all sorts of indirect statistics. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden [3] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-rape-capital-...

dang 5y ago
You're obviously using HN primarily for ideological battle, and that's against the site guidelines (regardless of whatever it is that you're battling for), so I've banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- MikeUt 5y ago
  No hard feelings. Keep up the good work.