4 ms·

You're saying a true thing (there is no genetic basis for human race), but you're using that to say no-one should talk about race (a social classification). As

by rovolo 5y ago

You're saying a true thing (there is no genetic basis for human race), but you're using that to say no-one should talk about race (a social classification). As an exercise, should the Civil Rights movement of the 60s have avoided mentioning race? Should Asian Americans not discuss how anti-china sentiment during covid is effectively anti-asian sentiment? There are good conversations to be had about when race should be discussed, but it sounds like you're advocating for a blanket ban.

nobody9999 5y ago
>but you're using that to say no-one should talk about race (a social classification) Where did I even imply that? My point is that the stuff that people consider defining characteristics of "race" are minor genetic differences and should be irrelevant. That some folks feel otherwise is a teaching opportunity. What's more, the social construct of "race" is just arbitrary and capricious. As such, while we certainly should address the ideas and behaviors around bigotry (because that's what it is, as "racism" isn't an actual thing unless you're referring to a species other than homo sapiens.), and we should call it that, otherwise we're perpetuating the ignorance and hatred of such bigoted beliefs. So let's not fiddle around with imprecise (and flat wrong) ideas about "race" and instead discuss the issues of bigotry. One is a bunch of bullshit made up by bigoted scumbags, and the other is the actual issue/situation. >There are good conversations to be had about when race should be discussed, but it sounds like you're advocating for a blanket ban. Let's rephrase the above: "There are good conversations to be had about when bigotry should be discussed. As for what I'm advocating, either I'm an extremely poor communicator, or you read what you wanted to read into my statement. I'll leave the decision about which it is to the readers.
- rovolo 5y ago
  > Where did I even imply that? Granted, I did extrapolate from your first response. I said so because race (like class) is a social reality in the US, and being mixed race does mean that you experience the US differently. You replied to > America is used to 3/4 white 1/4 black being considered black by saying there are no races, which is literally true. However, you're also implying that people should not identify themselves as Black or White or a mix. Some of that is perfectly valid since the blood quantum system was oppressive. But you're also saying that people should only identify themselves as human, and doing otherwise is bigotry. Sometimes you need to identify yourself as a minority group to find a community of people who share experience with you. Should people not identify as Black, or avoid celebrating Black success because there isn't a genetic basis to calling themselves or others Black? Maybe you'd benefit from thinking about the similarities (and differences) between race and ethnicity. Being White/Black in the U.S. is both a racial and ethnic deal. People can identify as Black while recognizing that there is no concrete test which can identify them as Black.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    > But you're also saying that people should only identify themselves as human, and doing otherwise is bigotry. I didn't say, or even imply, that either. I'll let you go and set up and knock down your straw men all by yourself. Thanks!

by rovolo 5y ago

nobody9999 5y ago

>but you're using that to say no-one should talk about race (a social classification) Where did I even imply that? My point is that the stuff that people consider defining characteristics of "race" are minor genetic differences and should be irrelevant. That some folks feel otherwise is a teaching opportunity. What's more, the social construct of "race" is just arbitrary and capricious. As such, while we certainly should address the ideas and behaviors around bigotry (because that's what it is, as "racism" isn't an actual thing unless you're referring to a species other than homo sapiens.), and we should call it that, otherwise we're perpetuating the ignorance and hatred of such bigoted beliefs. So let's not fiddle around with imprecise (and flat wrong) ideas about "race" and instead discuss the issues of bigotry. One is a bunch of bullshit made up by bigoted scumbags, and the other is the actual issue/situation. >There are good conversations to be had about when race should be discussed, but it sounds like you're advocating for a blanket ban. Let's rephrase the above: "There are good conversations to be had about when bigotry should be discussed. As for what I'm advocating, either I'm an extremely poor communicator, or you read what you wanted to read into my statement. I'll leave the decision about which it is to the readers.

rovolo 5y ago
> Where did I even imply that? Granted, I did extrapolate from your first response. I said so because race (like class) is a social reality in the US, and being mixed race does mean that you experience the US differently. You replied to > America is used to 3/4 white 1/4 black being considered black by saying there are no races, which is literally true. However, you're also implying that people should not identify themselves as Black or White or a mix. Some of that is perfectly valid since the blood quantum system was oppressive. But you're also saying that people should only identify themselves as human, and doing otherwise is bigotry. Sometimes you need to identify yourself as a minority group to find a community of people who share experience with you. Should people not identify as Black, or avoid celebrating Black success because there isn't a genetic basis to calling themselves or others Black? Maybe you'd benefit from thinking about the similarities (and differences) between race and ethnicity. Being White/Black in the U.S. is both a racial and ethnic deal. People can identify as Black while recognizing that there is no concrete test which can identify them as Black.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  > But you're also saying that people should only identify themselves as human, and doing otherwise is bigotry. I didn't say, or even imply, that either. I'll let you go and set up and knock down your straw men all by yourself. Thanks!