4 ms·

They are gas lighting people who are upset about what is really happening, and what will happen in 5-10 years, and portraying them as confused and ignorant inst

They are gas lighting people who are upset about what is really happening, and what will happen in 5-10 years, and portraying them as confused and ignorant instead. It’s the standard “you’re holding it wrong” Apple play

politelemon 5y ago
Five years ago it was: "you’re holding it wrong" Five years from now it'll be: "you're wrong" HN will as usual agree and take pride in being wrong.
- Bud 5y ago
  Actually, HN is, as usual, doing a great job of evaluating and discussing this issue, in real time.
  - krapp 5y ago
    Judging from the threads so far, HN believes Apple is scanning everything using a naive perceptual hash implementation it probably got off of Stack Overflow, with no oversight or sanity checks, and that even a loose match (which will be trivial) means SWAT teams automatically being sent to bust down your front door like the FBI meme, and that it's all just a pretext for CCP style authoritarian surveillance anyway, and we'll all be in dissident reeducation camps by the end of the year. I suppose it's great if you're looking for entertainment value. For rational, informed discussion of the technology and its political and social ramifications, not so much. It's just the same refrain of "we never bother to actually RTFA but we imagine a boot stomping on a human face forever."
    - echelon 5y ago
      I've tagged HN users using a small browser plugin I wrote. It's amusing to see all the Apple users jump to the defense of Apple despite their continued shitty behavior. It's also great to see the handful that have changed their minds.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- fossuser 5y ago
  The actual iPhone quote you're referring to was "Just avoid holding it in that way" not "you're holding it wrong" as it's often misquoted to. Most of the commentary on this more recent issue is similarly misrepresented and inaccurate. I think Apple's mistake here was a PR one, they shouldn't have announced this until they had e2ee ready. Then they could have announced that which would have gotten most of the (positive) press attention. Then they could have gone into details about how they were able to do it while still fighting CSAM.
  - FireBeyond 5y ago
    "Just avoid holding it in [one of the most widely accepted and ergonomic grips people use for their phones]".
    - fossuser 5y ago
      At the time people were showing the effect by gripping the bottom of the phone in such a way that wrapped their entire hand tightly around it. It wasn’t “one of the most widely accepted and ergonomic grips people use”. The entire thing was a non-scandal, it wasn’t a real issue. In a lot of ways this is similar.
  - numpad0 5y ago
    This might not be a hyperimportant distinction under current circumstances but interesting nevertheless. I remember that long form.
ksec 5y ago
Well there is a huge difference to AntennaGate. The two aren't really comparable. Not to mention Apple did in a way admit to the mistake and gave out a bumper within weeks of the complain. Compared to their Keyboard which took nearly 3 years before they have a programme for free repair.
ultimoo 5y ago
Can we stop using gaslighting when it's not applicable? This is an instance of deceiving or lying, not gaslighting.
- ziml77 5y ago
  Not going to happen. Words consistently get watered down in meaning by slight misuses that compound over time. There's no stopping that. People don't like being told they're using a word wrong. (And if language is constantly evolving, is there even a way to use a word incorrectly?)
- Valakas_ 5y ago
  This is an instance of trying to make the public doubt their own reality. They're saying we are confused, or that there is confusion. They don't admit blame, so it's to assume we, the public, are the confused ones. And even if we don't immediately assume that we're the confused ones, we are still going to question ourselves. It implants that there is confusion somewhere, and that maybe we misunderstood them somehow. That maybe we missed something? It is gaslighting by definition and, in fact, a very good example of it.

politelemon 5y ago

Five years ago it was: "you’re holding it wrong" Five years from now it'll be: "you're wrong" HN will as usual agree and take pride in being wrong.

Bud 5y ago
Actually, HN is, as usual, doing a great job of evaluating and discussing this issue, in real time.
- krapp 5y ago
  Judging from the threads so far, HN believes Apple is scanning everything using a naive perceptual hash implementation it probably got off of Stack Overflow, with no oversight or sanity checks, and that even a loose match (which will be trivial) means SWAT teams automatically being sent to bust down your front door like the FBI meme, and that it's all just a pretext for CCP style authoritarian surveillance anyway, and we'll all be in dissident reeducation camps by the end of the year. I suppose it's great if you're looking for entertainment value. For rational, informed discussion of the technology and its political and social ramifications, not so much. It's just the same refrain of "we never bother to actually RTFA but we imagine a boot stomping on a human face forever."
  - echelon 5y ago
    I've tagged HN users using a small browser plugin I wrote. It's amusing to see all the Apple users jump to the defense of Apple despite their continued shitty behavior. It's also great to see the handful that have changed their minds.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
fossuser 5y ago
The actual iPhone quote you're referring to was "Just avoid holding it in that way" not "you're holding it wrong" as it's often misquoted to. Most of the commentary on this more recent issue is similarly misrepresented and inaccurate. I think Apple's mistake here was a PR one, they shouldn't have announced this until they had e2ee ready. Then they could have announced that which would have gotten most of the (positive) press attention. Then they could have gone into details about how they were able to do it while still fighting CSAM.
- FireBeyond 5y ago
  "Just avoid holding it in [one of the most widely accepted and ergonomic grips people use for their phones]".
  - fossuser 5y ago
    At the time people were showing the effect by gripping the bottom of the phone in such a way that wrapped their entire hand tightly around it. It wasn’t “one of the most widely accepted and ergonomic grips people use”. The entire thing was a non-scandal, it wasn’t a real issue. In a lot of ways this is similar.
- numpad0 5y ago
  This might not be a hyperimportant distinction under current circumstances but interesting nevertheless. I remember that long form.

ksec 5y ago

Well there is a huge difference to AntennaGate. The two aren't really comparable. Not to mention Apple did in a way admit to the mistake and gave out a bumper within weeks of the complain. Compared to their Keyboard which took nearly 3 years before they have a programme for free repair.

ultimoo 5y ago

Can we stop using gaslighting when it's not applicable? This is an instance of deceiving or lying, not gaslighting.

ziml77 5y ago
Not going to happen. Words consistently get watered down in meaning by slight misuses that compound over time. There's no stopping that. People don't like being told they're using a word wrong. (And if language is constantly evolving, is there even a way to use a word incorrectly?)
Valakas_ 5y ago
This is an instance of trying to make the public doubt their own reality. They're saying we are confused, or that there is confusion. They don't admit blame, so it's to assume we, the public, are the confused ones. And even if we don't immediately assume that we're the confused ones, we are still going to question ourselves. It implants that there is confusion somewhere, and that maybe we misunderstood them somehow. That maybe we missed something? It is gaslighting by definition and, in fact, a very good example of it.